is there a limit on how far a house can be from it's service?

bullheimer

Senior Member
Location
WA
my bud says w/in 50 feet but i think he's confused with motor controls and that 'line of sight' thing.

i have a pedestal meter/main service (basically a mobile home service), about 250 ft from the house. we put a panel inside the house and i planned on running my 4 wire straight into it as it is a sub panel . any problem with that? i hadn't thought so. thx!
 
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jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI
Remember:

(1) Readily Accessible Location. The service disconnecting
means shall be installed at a readily accessible location
either outside of a building or structure or inside nearest the
point of entrance of the service conductors.

If it is a manufactured home better read 550.
 

bullheimer

Senior Member
Location
WA
it's right inside the side door of the structure. not a mobile or preman. well, the SUB panel is right inside the door, the service disco is a mile away.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
it's right inside the side door of the structure. not a mobile or preman. well, the SUB panel is right inside the door, the service disco is a mile away.
And you have both a grounded conductor and an EGC in that one mile run?
Technically required if the distant location really is the service point between you and the utility.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
With that kind of length, you hopefully have either a high voltage service, or have stepped up and back down closer to the dwelling. The feeder doesn't need a neutral if no neutral load is supplied - like with the higher voltage and transformer at the end typically wouldn't need a neutral.
 

MannyBurgos

Senior Member
Location
Waukegan, IL
my bud says w/in 50 feet but i think he's confused with motor controls and that 'line of sight' thing.

i have a pedestal meter/main service (basically a mobile home service), about 250 ft from the house. we put a panel inside the house and i planned on running my 4 wire straight into it as it is a sub panel . any problem with that? i hadn't thought so. thx!

As long as you are within the 5% max voltage drop...
 

bullheimer

Senior Member
Location
WA
250 ft. thanks for reading. yes 4 wires. as long as we are on that... why do they say that all conductors have to be the same material? i like to run, and have passed before, Aluminum triplex with a copper #6 buried in dirt, going thru a bit of plastic pipe at the ends, but with the two ground rods connected to the egc in the ditch. the only time i have failed was because of this new ufer ground requirement they just started enforcing here. (ps this house was existing but gutted).... and.... i have a friend who says there is a code against running bare copper in steel pipe. can anybody verify? i have never heard of this. and is it 5% V drop? a DIFFERENT elec. friend told me 3%. it is 250 ft so we are using 250MCM instead of 4/0.
as of now we all seem to be in agreement that no disconnect is required on the outside of the house as i have described it
 

J.P.

Senior Member
Location
United States
The utility co wont set a pole or ground transformer and run the primary closer?
That way you aren't buying the wire.
The Voltage drop for feeders is 3%
 

J.P.

Senior Member
Location
United States
I should add that at my own house the transformer is 300ft away from my meter base.
The meter base is 20ft away from my house.
I bought and pipped 20ft of wire from the meter base to my house panel.
The utility bought and trenched 300ft of wire and will have to maintain their unpipped wire in the future
 

bullheimer

Senior Member
Location
WA
ok thanks, thats where the 3% came from. utility provided the wire to the service post. i get to supply the rest.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The utility co wont set a pole or ground transformer and run the primary closer?
That way you aren't buying the wire.
The Voltage drop for feeders is 3%
Unless you have a local code stating otherwise the voltage drop values of 3 and 5 percent mentioned in NEC are just recommendations suggested in an informational note, and not actually in code requirements.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
250 ft. thanks for reading. yes 4 wires. as long as we are on that... why do they say that all conductors have to be the same material? i like to run, and have passed before, Aluminum triplex with a copper #6 buried in dirt, going thru a bit of plastic pipe at the ends, but with the two ground rods connected to the egc in the ditch. the only time i have failed was because of this new ufer ground requirement they just started enforcing here. (ps this house was existing but gutted).... and.... i have a friend who says there is a code against running bare copper in steel pipe. can anybody verify? i have never heard of this. and is it 5% V drop? a DIFFERENT elec. friend told me 3%. it is 250 ft so we are using 250MCM instead of 4/0.
as of now we all seem to be in agreement that no disconnect is required on the outside of the house as i have described it
Only place where you must use same conductor type is for parallel components of same section of conductor. You can have copper and aluminum conductors supplying the same circuit, feeder, service... Bare conductor in any raceway is not prohibited either. If you have a bare conductor in a raceway it must be either an equipment grounding conductor, a grounding electrode conductor, or a grounded service conductor. You would not be allowed to run a bare grounded conductor (neutral) for a feeder or branch circuit.


Add: one thing I do see often that is a violation is people using 6AWG solid bare for an EGC. Nothing wrong with it being bare but somewhere it states it must be stranded if over 8 AWG. (I think it is 8 AWG, and is probably somewhere in Art 300 or 310, will check back if I find I am wrong here)
 
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ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Add: one thing I do see often that is a violation is people using 6AWG solid bare for an EGC. Nothing wrong with it being bare but somewhere it states it must be stranded if over 8 AWG. (I think it is 8 AWG, and is probably somewhere in Art 300 or 310, will check back if I find I am wrong here)
I don't think that is correct. I would think it would be in 250 if it were anywhere, and I just looked through 250 and did not see anything that said that. If you have a code reference, please provide it. In the PV industry we use solid bare copper #6 for EGC's pretty often.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
I don't think that is correct. I would think it would be in 250 if it were anywhere, and I just looked through 250 and did not see anything that said that. If you have a code reference, please provide it. In the PV industry we use solid bare copper #6 for EGC's pretty often.
It would not be in 250, since it would be a rule for pulling conductors in raceways rather than a rule for EGCs.


In particular, look at 310.106(C) [2011]
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
I don't think that is correct. I would think it would be in 250 if it were anywhere, and I just looked through 250 and did not see anything that said that. If you have a code reference, please provide it. In the PV industry we use solid bare copper #6 for EGC's pretty often.
GD found it, I couldn't find it earlier today and had to leave, but I knew it was in there somewhere. It is a general rule or all conductors in raceways, but the use of 6 solid bare for an EGC is where I see it violated the most. I think mostly because guys already have 6 solidbare for use with ground rods and don't want to purchase 6 green. If a larger EGC is needed they don't need green they can mark it green. I usually see it from pump panel to irrigation well motors when 6 AWG EGC is required, so length is usually 10 feet or less still a code violation - inspectors must not know or don't care is all I can figure. I always run a green stranded conductor.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
In the 2011 it is 310.106(C)


(C) Stranded Conductors. Where installed in raceways,
conductors 8 AWG and larger, not specifically permitted or
required elsewhere in this Code to be solid, shall be
stranded.
Smart$ maintains that 250.118 allows larger solid EGCs in raceways but I do not agree with him.
 
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