Island Outlet Outage - AFCI next?

pipe_bender said:
We've been installing receptacle in the islands lower cab, then either a pop up, or this power strip thing cabinet installers provide that goes in the top drawer.
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Are you using a listed drawer outlet? As far as I know, there's only 1 of those as well...

dockingdrawer.com

Why Docking Drawer?

dockingdrawer.com dockingdrawer.com

I was walking through a friend's new house and looked at the one the Amish cabinet maker installed in their bathroom vanity drawer. Had a 10' 18awg cord on it. Imagine plugging a curling iron and/or hair dryer in to that at the same time.
It was ripped out while I was there and given back to the GC and told him to do it right this time...
 
VirutalElectrician said:
Are you using a listed drawer outlet? As far as I know, there's only 1 of those as well...

dockingdrawer.com

Why Docking Drawer?

dockingdrawer.com dockingdrawer.com

I was walking through a friend's new house and looked at the one the Amish cabinet maker installed in their bathroom vanity drawer. Had a 10' 18awg cord on it. Imagine plugging a curling iron and/or hair dryer in to that at the same time.
It was ripped out while I was there and given back to the GC and told him to do it right this time...
Click to expand...
Curling iron is no problem, they might only draw a max of about 30 watts. Even if they were to draw 250 watts they still only drawing around 2 amps.
 
W@ttson said:
I recently found out that per the 2023 NEC, islands no longer require to have outlets. Blew my mind, I found out by accident due to a youtube video. I thought it was a click bait title.

After years of increasing the requirements for outlets at island, poof, gone.

I had never seen such an about face and got me wondering - could the great invasion of AFCI breakers be next?
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210.52(c)(3) only prohibits the installation of receptacles to serve the counter or work surface below a island or peninsula counter or work surface , nothing prohibits a convenience receptacle from being installed below the counter or work surface
 
Jaybone812 said:
210.52(c)(3) only prohibits the installation of receptacles to serve the counter or work surface below a island or peninsula counter or work surface , nothing prohibits a convenience receptacle from being installed below the counter or work surface
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They are fixing that loophole in the 2026. Receptacles below the countertop, no matter what purpose they may serve, must be at least 24" below the countertop surface.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
They are fixing that loophole in the 2026. Receptacles below the countertop, no matter what purpose they may serve, must be at least 24" below the countertop surface.
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This is what I dislike about the NEC. Here in NJ we won't adopt the 2026 for another 5 years. Given that it's 2025 the code should be more fluid with an immediate TIA for stuff like this. Anyone can access a TIA in real-time when needed.
 
kwired said:
Curling iron is no problem, they might only draw a max of about 30 watts. Even if they were to draw 250 watts they still only drawing around 2 amps.
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Until you put the curling iron into the drawer outlet, still plugged in, and something presses against the power button and heats up the closed drawer.

That's the purspose of the temp sensor, to cut power if the drawer over heats.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
They are fixing that loophole in the 2026. Receptacles below the countertop, no matter what purpose they may serve, must be at least 24" below the countertop surface.
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Thank you Don. And I was aware that was happening . I doubt it will end up affecting me though just like 2023 nec 210.52(c)(3) had no affect on me either . Mass amended the requirement back to the 2017 language so nothing to think about lol and I assume they will do something similar with the 2026 rule . But rhats obviously just an educated guess and not a fact
 
retirede said:
That’s great. Even kids that can’t walk yet will be able to reach the cord! 😀
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True but a appliance with a standard 2’ appliance cord will not be able to reach the counter if plugged into a receptacle 24” below it and I assume that’s the point of the rule unless I’m mistaken
 
Jaybone812 said:
True but a appliance with a standard 2’ appliance cord will not be able to reach the counter if plugged into a receptacle 24” below it and I assume that’s the point of the rule unless I’m mistaken
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Correct. But I still have older countertop appliances with 4’ cords. And you know somebody is going to use an extension cord to reach the nearest receptacle no matter where it is.
 
retirede said:
Correct. But I still have older countertop appliances with 4’ cords. And you know somebody is going to use an extension cord to reach the nearest receptacle no matter where it is.
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You’re 100% correct and my comment wasn’t made to correct you and if it came across as such I apologize, my comment was addressing what I feel is the intent of the 2026 code, because the standard kitchen small appliance is equipped with a 24” cord. But I’m in complete agreement with what you said about the extension cords , because there’s no possible way the for nfpa to write a code to prevent all human error because people are always gonna do the thing that makes their life a little easier regardless of how stupid it might be and there’s no way to prevent it lol
 
Jaybone812 said:
You’re 100% correct and my comment wasn’t made to correct you and if it came across as such I apologize, my comment was addressing what I feel is the intent of the 2026 code, because the standard kitchen small appliance is equipped with a 24” cord. But I’m in complete agreement with what you said about the extension cords , because there’s no possible way the for nfpa to write a code to prevent all human error because people are always gonna do the thing that makes their life a little easier regardless of how stupid it might be and there’s no way to prevent it lol
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I didn’t take it that way at all. We agree.
 
Jaybone812 said:
True but a appliance with a standard 2’ appliance cord will not be able to reach the counter if plugged into a receptacle 24” below it and I assume that’s the point of the rule unless I’m mistaken
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Unfortunately, while most appliances have 2' cords, the product standards do not prohibit longer cords.
 
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don_resqcapt19 said:
Unfortunately, while most appliances have 2' cords, the product standards do no prohibit longer cords.
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Huh, i honestly never looked into that specifically, but I assumed it did based on the 210.52(c)(1) language and intent, the intent of the upcoming 2026 rule and the fact I never really notice a counter top type small appliance with any other length of cord lol
 
Jaybone812 said:
Huh, i honestly never looked into that specifically, but I assumed it did based on the 210.52(c)(1) language and intent, the intent of the upcoming 2026 rule and the fact I never really notice a counter top type small appliance with any other length of cord lol
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I did too, until I did some research a few years ago. It seems, based on the maximum 4' spacing for countertop receptacles, the rules have always been based on the appliances having 2' cord.
It may be an unwritten rule among the appliance manufacturers, much like the jacket color code for NM. That is not in any product standard and there is nothing that would prevent an NM manufacturer from putting a yellow jacket on 14 AWG.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I did too, until I did some research a few years ago. It seems, based on the maximum 4' spacing for countertop receptacles, the rules have always been based on the appliances having 2' cord.
It may be an unwritten rule among the appliance manufacturers, much like the jacket color code for NM. That is not in any product standard and there is nothing that would prevent an NM manufacturer from putting a yellow jacket on 14 AWG.
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I can see the manufactures recognizing 2’ as the standard length of a small appliance’s cord or like you said a unwritten rule amongst modern appliance manufacturers , kinda of like our industry recognizes a 3 phase 120/208 voltage wiring system and the colors black , red , and blue being the colors used to identify its ungrounded phase conductors , but the nec has no code that requires those conductors be identified with those specific colors.
But not gonna lie I did always just assume the product standard was 2’ . Thanks for the clarification!
 
W@ttson said:
I recently found out that per the 2023 NEC, islands no longer require to have outlets. Blew my mind, I found out by accident due to a youtube video. I thought it was a click bait title.

After years of increasing the requirements for outlets at island, poof, gone.

I had never seen such an about face and got me wondering - could the great invasion of AFCI breakers be next?
Click to expand...
I heard that it was because they didn't want kids to be able to pull appliances off the countertop with the cord... Have to have pop-ups now?
 
Zanichbug said:
I heard that it was because they didn't want kids to be able to pull appliances off the countertop with the cord... Have to have pop-ups now?
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Kids being able to pull a hot appliance off the countertop has long been a reason to not want to put receptacles on the side of a cabinet, and been the reasons for pushing for some change in NEC as it relates to this situation.

2023 NEC has removed the requirement to place any receptacles intended to serve the counter top space on islands and peninsula, however also says (a pretty vaguely when it comes to how to do so) to have provisions to be able to add them later. It clearly says outlets intended to serve the counter top area, though they are optional need to be on or above the countertop.

This doesn't prohibit you from putting one on the side of the cabinet like many have done in the past, just that if you do have one there it can not count as being a receptacle that serves the countertop.

Then according to what some have posted, the 2026 NEC is likely making more changes here and may end up prohibit putting receptacle on side of the cabinet. I think they should still be optional myself.
 
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