Island recep; no base cabinets. Just four posts

[retirede]

I cannot understand why the compulsion of electrical inspectors to have to require even more stupid solutions to easily fixed issues if common sense is applied.

On the other hand, If I was the inspector , I would have made the resident either install a pop up in the counter or else install some cabinets,

I think you contradicted yourself.


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[Coppersmith]

It doesn't matter if it's just a table or a bunch of cabinets. It's a kitchen work surface, a countertop. Countertops require receptacles. Unless the case can be made that it's strictly a dining table. It better be at chair height and surrounded by chairs then.

 

[K8MHZ]

It doesn't matter if it's just a table or a bunch of cabinets. It's a kitchen work surface, a countertop. Countertops require receptacles. Unless the case can be made that it's strictly a dining table. It better be at chair height and surrounded by chairs then.

Where does it say that all kitchen work surfaces are countertops?

 

[wwhitney]

In 2017, the title of 210.52(C) was changed to "Countertops and Work Surfaces."

Cheers, Wayne

 

[K8MHZ]

In 2017, the title of 210.52(C) was changed to "Countertops and Work Surfaces."

Cheers, Wayne

And it looks like in 2017 they weren't considered to be the same:

" 210.52(C)(2) Island Countertop Spaces. At least one receptacle shall be installed at each island countertop space with a long dimension of 600 mm (24 in.) or greater and a short dimension of 300 mm (12 in.) or greater. "

Then in 2020, they were considered to be the same:

" (a) At least one receptacle outlet shall be provided for the first 0.84 m2 (9 ft2), or fraction thereof, of the countertop or work surface. A receptacle outlet shall be provided for every additional 1.7 m2 (18 ft2), or fraction thereof, of the countertop or work surface. "

 

[wwhitney]

Probably not an intentional distinction in the 2017 NEC, just something cleaned up in the 2020 NEC.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[macmikeman]

Does this mean the "islands" with castor wheels that can be rolled out to another room than the kitchen are required to have an outlet now?

 

[Coppersmith]

Where does it say that all kitchen work surfaces are countertops?

Here.

 

[ramsy]

Those portable work surfaces for kitchens are common for catering events, and commercial kitchens. They get put away after the event, and use extension cords per 590.4(C thru E)

For more permanent ones, our AHJ's recommend a floor receptacle for the cord & plug. Slightly raised or in-use WP floor covers don't collect water

 

[K8MHZ]

Here.

But not here.

Definition of COUNTERTOP

the flat working surface on top of waist-level kitchen cabinets… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[petersonra]

So if you go to Walmart and buy a fold-up table and set it up in your kitchen now you have to have an outlet for it?

It sounds to me by this definition even a common kitchen table would require an outlet.

 

[ramsy]

Whats wrong with AHJ's making the determination for temporary, the same way they determine if a wiring method is subject to damage?

 

[brantmacga]

I would have tried to get the wire and outlet embedded in the post. You know one day down the road they will want to plug something in regardless of a code issue possibly not requiring one.

I did a job recently that involves recessing receptacles into posts; they were engineered 6x6’s with a hollow core. I fished the cables down the hollow center and cut the outlet box into the 6x6. I discussed with the manufacturer beforehand to make sure this didn’t cause structural issues and was told it wouldn’t be an issue. Finished product looked so much nicer than surface mounted raceway & box.


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[brantmacga]

Lots of opinions here and I appreciate everyone sharing.

I’ll come back and share a pic of the finished product when the “island” is done. Right now just the posts are installed with bracing.


I don’t like the floor box, but it was satisfactory to the inspector and homeowner.


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[ActionDave]

I never put a recpt in my island after a kitchen remodel. Always meant to but never got around to it. It has not been a problem.

 

[Fred B]

I think the inspector missed 210.52(C)(5) exception that the receptacle placement if cannot be within the 20 in above countertop or work surface that it can be below but must be within 12 inches. That would make for an awfully low island if receptacle is in floor. Practical solution would be similar to one that @brantmacga had said in post #33.
Code also makes no reference to a "cabinet" but uses term "support base", that can be simply pillars.

 

[brantmacga]

I think the inspector missed 210.52(C)(5) exception that the receptacle placement if cannot be within the 20 in above countertop or work surface that it can be below but must be within 12 inches.

Inspector didn’t miss it, just compromised with homeowner who was adamant he would not have an island recep.


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[hbiss]

Inspector didn’t miss it, just compromised with homeowner who was adamant he would not have an island recep.

No receptacle- no C of O for you!

-Hal

 

[LarryFine]

Inspector didn’t miss it, just compromised with homeowner who was adamant he would not have an island recep.

That would be nice to be able to do. "You two let me know when you come up with a solution acceptable to both of you."

 

[kwired]

I cannot understand why the compulsion of electrical inspectors to have to require even more stupid solutions to easily fixed issues if common sense is applied. On the other hand, If I was the inspector , I would have made the resident either install a pop up in the counter or else install some cabinets, simply because the concept of the 4 posts and a countertop is so outlandishly stupid and ugly in the first place. Not because of any internal obligation to enforce a silly ass code some how or another. By the way, last time I checked, 4 legs and a top is called a table not an island. Talk the owner into not attaching it at the leg bottoms and you don't have an Island countertop.

We have a winner, it is now a table. If they really want to attach them after passing inspection they can then do so.