It's tough out there

[CopperTone]

i'm sorry but i can't scrub toilets.

 

[petersonra]

When demand is high relative to supply, prices rise, when demand is low relative to supply, prices drop. Thats just the way it is.

Part of the problem is that many of you are trapped in a system that works to your favor when times are good, and against you when times are less good (that system being the fixed cost of labor some of you have to accept). People not trapped in that system can adjust their labor prices to match what the market is doing.

 

[weressl]

The low ballers are having a banner year. Seems every job I price is going right into the recycle bin. I'm always too high, even when I price low.

I don't see any choice but to go even lower.

In talking with gc's and other contractors in the Boston area, $65 per hour is pretty much the norm and even somewhat high.

I haven't been anywhere near that figure in years and I don't want to be. On the other hand $65 an hour is better than zero.

To the "employees" that work steady, end your day after eight hours, and collect a paycheck every week, I salute you. :grin:

Funny thing is that everybody complains about manufacturing is moving to China where the wages are lower. Yet in Texas electricians billed @$35 or so. So what's up with that?!

 

[Rockyd]

Funny thing is that everybody complains about manufacturing is moving to China where the wages are lower.

Even China is having problems....

(snip)
In China, where rural villages are running low on able-bodied young workers to send to factories, wages are rising more than 10 percent a year for many assembly-line workers. And pay is rising even faster for skilled workers, like machinery repair technicians.

(snip)
In coastal provinces with ready access to ports, even unskilled workers now earn $120 a month for a 40-hour workweek, and often considerably more; wages in inland provinces, where transport is costlier, are somewhat lower but also rising fast. While Chinese wages are still less than $1 an hour, factory workers in Vietnam earn as little as $50 a month for a 48-hour workweek, including Saturdays.

(snip)
The company plans to expand to 1,400 engineers in Vietnam by 2010. Beginning engineers here still earn just $200 a month, less than half the salary in China and less than a tenth of American and Japanese salaries.

(snip)
Nearly 20,000 workers walked out this spring at a Nike shoe factory run by a Taiwanese contractor. The workers went back to work only when given a 10 percent raise, to $55 a month, and a larger meal subsidy.

(snip)
?I keep saying to our people, ?How long will it be until we?re priced out of the market?? ? said John Parker, Ford?s executive vice president for Asia, Pacific and Africa. ?The impact of that some day is you?re no longer low-cost.?


Full story

 

[ITO]

It?s called a ?market? for a reason, and when times are good you get to charge more for your work, but when times are bad you get to cinch up your belt and get what you can.

I got mocked here one time for saying I took GCs to the cleaners when times were good, like it was somehow unethical to take advantage of a boom and get as much as the market would bare for my work, and now that times are bad and I will gladly do work at or below cost to keep my guys working and probably get mocked for that too. Either way it is what is and if you are in this business you should know or be learning by now that our trade is cyclical and when times are good make and bank as much as you can to get you through when the markets crashes.

It hasn?t come to hang?n ceiling fans for $25 off of Craig?s list but if it does, I will happily do it to keep my foremen working. Then y?all can post my adds and mock me for ruining your markets.

Right now I have a whole crew re-lamping my warehouse, putting in hard pipe for a new alarm system, painting, sorting material, sweeping, and all sorts of other make work, including cleaning, until a big underground job starts first week in January and I have to say hanging ceiling fans for $25 a pop is starting to sound pretty good.

 

[peter d]

i'm sorry but i can't scrub toilets.

So what you're saying is that there is work that is "beneath" you more or less?

My view is if a man needs money and needs a job he will do whatever he has to do, assuming it's legal of course. There is nothing that is beneath me as far as work goes. Ok, maybe working in in a meat packing plant...I couldn't do that, but if I had a family to feed (which I don't) I know I would be ashamed of myself if I was able bodied and sitting on my butt doing nothing.

 

[peter d]

In coastal provinces with ready access to ports, even unskilled workers now earn $120 a month for a 40-hour workweek, and often considerably more; wages in inland provinces, where transport is costlier, are somewhat lower but also rising fast. While Chinese wages are still less than $1 an hour, factory workers in Vietnam earn as little as $50 a month for a 48-hour workweek, including Saturdays.

I was amazed when I first started seeing the "Made in Vietnam" label on consumer products a few years ago...mostly clothing and the occasional Philips light bulb too. I wondered "why Vietnam?" when China was so cheap...now I know why.

 

[satcom]

When demand is high relative to supply, prices rise, when demand is low relative to supply, prices drop. Thats just the way it is.

Goods rise and fall with the market, services tend to raise when goods are falling, the cost of providing some services are not tied to the general market conditions, electrical service work happens to be one of them, electrical construction is tied to market goods.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

Girth up everyone. IMO, it's just getting started.

 

[CopperTone]

I would do anything I "Had" to do to survive. I am not even close to the point where I feel I "have to" scrub toilets. I actually have been nest egging the business account this past 18 months to gear up to take on larger jobs but they never came through so I can ride that out for a while.

But to answer your question of if I think it is beneath me? yea a little, I have a BS in engineering and a master electrician license. I shouldn't have to scrub toilets for a living.

 

[emahler]

When demand is high relative to supply, prices rise, when demand is low relative to supply, prices drop. Thats just the way it is.

Part of the problem is that many of you are trapped in a system that works to your favor when times are good, and against you when times are less good (that system being the fixed cost of labor some of you have to accept). People not trapped in that system can adjust their labor prices to match what the market is doing.

could you explain? if I am understanding you, I should ask my employees to take a pay cut...is this correct?

 

[peter d]

But to answer your question of if I think it is beneath me? yea a little, I have a BS in engineering and a master electrician license. I shouldn't have to scrub toilets for a living.

Likewise, I also have a 4 year degree and I'm licensed in two states. Do I make my living doing electrical work? Of course. Would I take a supposedly menial job if I couldn't do electrical work? You bet.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

could you explain? if I am understanding you, I should ask my employees to take a pay cut...is this correct?

I know you didn't ask me, but I'd say you could replace your employees with as equal quality for less money. Should you ask them to take a pay cut? That really depends.

The construction business has been very nice for a while. I believe we have overbuilt in most areas of construction (both residential and commercial). The work that is left (demand) is far less than the ability to perform the work (supply). Economics 101: more supply than demand = price declines. The prices for our services will continue to decline until the demand and supply come closer together.

This is what happened to manufacturing. The supply of less expensive labor (cheap) was/is enormous (out of the USA). This country has experienced a fantastic standard of living compared to the rest of the world. As the world gets smaller and more interconnective, the standard of living of the countries of the world will approach the mean. This will cause our standard of living to go down as the rest of the world rises.

So, how much is an electrician worth? It depends. How much work is there and how many electricans are available to perform the work.

You have to ask yourself how long you are willing to pay someone that cannot return enough money to the business to break even? I'm talking about the competent hardworking trustworthy electrician that you now employ. If this economic problem lasts 6-months it's one answer. If it lasts 6-years, I bet it's another answer.

 

[ike5547]

I doubt if anyone here is dropping their rates, they're just wondering if it's gonna come to that.

Is anyone actually raising their rates?

 

[sparkyjim]

I would do anything I "Had" to do to survive. I am not even close to the point where I feel I "have to" scrub toilets. I actually have been nest egging the business account this past 18 months to gear up to take on larger jobs but they never came through so I can ride that out for a while.

But to answer your question of if I think it is beneath me? yea a little, I have a BS in engineering and a master electrician license. I shouldn't have to scrub toilets for a living.

You're curricula vitae isn't that impressive. We're booked for the next 14 months, and I will take jobs scrubbing toilets tomorrow. No legitimate work is beneath anyone. It's only hubris that makes you think so.

 

[CopperTone]

I suppose my point should be that I should be able to find work along my field lines and not have to resort to such a menial job as washing toilets even if my curricula vitae isn't that impressive

The world needs ditch diggers too.


You can have all the dirty toilets you want, I won't even low ball you on that bid.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

The world needs ditch diggers too.

Haven't I dug enough ditches yet? :smile:

 

[growler]

If all you guys take jobs scrubbing toilets tomorrow then you are going to flood the market and drive the price down.

Haven't you learned anything from electrical work?:-?

 

[satcom]

If all you guys take jobs scrubbing toilets tomorrow then you are going to flood the market and drive the price down.

Haven't you learned anything from electrical work?:-?

I love it, the truth is always funny!

 

[ike5547]

We're booked for the next 14 months, and I will take jobs scrubbing toilets tomorrow.

Is this a hobby of yours?