LED high bay retrofit lamps

Jim1959

Senior Member
Location
Longmont, CO
LED retrofit.jpgWe "upgraded" a dozen of our 400 watt metal halide high bay lights in our shop with LED retrofit lamps where you remove the ballast and extend the line voltage to the mogul base lamp socket. After about a year, they are failing, some flicker, all are becoming dim and changing to a yellowish color. I was surprised at this happening, and wondered if others had similar experiences. The lights are fed with 208 volts, and the lamps are rated 120 - 277 volts. I had inquired if the 208 volt supply was appropriate, and my supplier stated that they should operate normally. Any thoughts or experiences to share?

 

Jim1959

Senior Member
Location
Longmont, CO
Yes, I think you bought generic garbage online and now it's coming back to bite you.
Think what you want, they came from one of the nations larger electrical distributors, I'm just looking for some shared experience, something of value. Thank you for your effort.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
Answer is obvious, they are failing. Voltage is appropriate. I would see if you could get some kind of refund or replacement credit from the manufacturer or distributor. If these were regular lamps you would throw them away and replace them thinking better luck next time, but these things are a bit more expensive. With LED lighting it's looking like it's almost the luck of the draw .

-Hal
 

JFletcher

Senior Member
Location
Williamsburg, VA
If they are not cheap junk, perhaps an application problem? What kind of temperature is at the light fixtures? Are LED replacements of this type sensitive to lamp position?
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
The electricians were I work have retrofitted all our HPS wall packs with Light Efficient Design (LED, clever) corn cob lamps. Quite a few have failed, one building, 3 out of 4.
Are those retrofits design lights consortium approved?
I would be more inclined to go with Lithonia, Hubble, ect. Most of the issues with LED products are the power supplies. The LED itself is a solid state device..
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
The electricians were I work have retrofitted all our HPS wall packs with Light Efficient Design (LED, clever) corn cob lamps. Quite a few have failed, one building, 3 out of 4.
Are those retrofits design lights consortium approved?
I would be more inclined to go with Lithonia, Hubble, ect. Most of the issues with LED products are the power supplies. The LED itself is a solid state device..
On the other hand many LEDs use blue or UV emitters with phosphors. Either the emitters or the phosphors can deteriorate.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Think what you want, they came from one of the nations larger electrical distributors, I'm just looking for some shared experience, something of value. Thank you for your effort.
I stand corrected, you bought generic garbage from a wholesale distributor.
 

Klockopotomis

Member
Location
Parker CO
Im glad u posted this, last November I changed out 20 4 pin fluorescent can lights to Light Efficients Designs ballast AND line voltage compatible LED lamps. Their engineer said they should work with most of the lamps. After 4 months 40% failed so i went back and bypassed the ballast and wired with 120 line voltage. 3 months later 4 more.. and now 3 more.
Going forward I will bypass the ballast and not use the "retro-fit ballast friendly" wiring method bc it is apparently not so friendly. I have used them also in 2 different parking lot lights which I did bypass the ballast and those fortunately have not stopped working.
I did wonder about "quality" bc in the original 20 there are only a few left which sound like their are a ticking time bomb.
The company has been very good at sending out replacement tho.
And you can reach their designer/engineer anytime during the day for troubleshooting help which is a big plus. But i would be open to any other reputable alternatives as I cannot afford these trip shares to replace defective items, so hare if anyone has any options. I did buy thru my supply house who has been using them for a several years
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
About a month ago I get a request from a homeowner who changed out the lamps in his ceiling cans from R40 incandescent to LEDs from HD. They were on a dimmer and what was there wouldn't allow the LEDs to turn completely off so he goes back to HD and gets a Lutron Diva 3-way dimmer. The original dimmer was a master/remote set up and he couldn't figure out how to wire the Diva that uses the traditional 3-way configuration and a regular 3-way switch. So I make the wiring changes in the boxes and all is working fine.

About a week ago I get a call from the customer saying that his wife came home, went to turn the lights on from the 3-way, saw a flash through the Decora rocker and the breaker tripped. After resetting the breaker all is working as usual.

Now, keep in mind that this is the customer's story and I haven't confirmed any of it other than asking if all the lamps worked (they did) and if the dimmer still worked (he didn't try it). I did tell him, if it was me I would change the LED lamps out, I can't see anything else that would cause that kind of thing.

-Hal
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
About a week ago I get a call from the customer saying that his wife came home, went to turn the lights on from the 3-way, saw a flash through the Decora rocker and the breaker tripped. After resetting the breaker all is working as usual.
Sounds like a poorly-stuffed switch box. Ground wire hit a traveler.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
No. He did say that he removed the 3-way and found no evidence of arcing. Besides, I installed that switch and I can guarantee you that the ground was no where near the screws. Dimmer at the other end has pigtails.

-Hal
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
No. He did say that he removed the 3-way and found no evidence of arcing. Besides, I installed that switch and I can guarantee you that the ground was no where near the screws. Dimmer at the other end has pigtails.

-Hal
With some switch designs a bright contact-closing or contact-opening flash inside the switch can be seen through the white/ivory plastic of the switch level or the Decora rocker.
 

Jim1959

Senior Member
Location
Longmont, CO
Thanks to those who replied with helpful comments and experience. The lamps that failed are being replaced under warranty, we'll see how the new ones last. In the meantime, I purchased replacements and the current cost is about 25% of what they were a year ago.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
With some switch designs a bright contact-closing or contact-opening flash inside the switch can be seen through the white/ivory plastic of the switch level or the Decora rocker.
Again, going from the customer's description, that's what I told him. Since the breaker tripped I have to assume it was a dead short someplace which really would have produced a flash. After the breaker was reset everything worked normally I was told. I asked him to check if the dimmer still worked since I remember incandescent lamps can sometimes fail where the filament falls across the supports and creates a short that takes the dimmer out. The dimmer usually fails fully on and won't respond to dimming. So at least if that happened you could point a finger at a LED lamp, but he never got back to me.

-Hal
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
I would also check for proper 3-way switching from both the dimmer and the switch, just to make sure there is no fault on one traveler.
 

mbrooke

Senior Member
Location
United States
Think what you want, they came from one of the nations larger electrical distributors, I'm just looking for some shared experience, something of value. Thank you for your effort.
Which means nothing- bad products are sold everywhere. What you describe are basically over driven over heated LEDs. Your not the only one. I bought a bunch of LED X filament bulbs, 20,000 hour average life. Half of them started flickering and then failing to light at 1000 hours.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
I would also check for proper 3-way switching from both the dimmer and the switch, just to make sure there is no fault on one traveler.
After I wired the 3-way I checked each traveler at the dimmer end with a test lamp by operating the 3-way to see that I had it right. Feed is at the 3-way end.

You have a good point however because the old dimmer setup used one of the travelers from the remote (now 3-way location) as a hot back to the dimmer, the other traveler was the control from the remote back to the dimmer. This was installed originally when the addition was done and it operated without indecent for 20 years. Not sure what would happen if there was a high resistance fault to ground on the control conductor and possibly applying full line voltage on a damaged conductor caused it to fault.

Interesting problem with little to go on.

-Hal
 
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