Life Support Branch

[mbrooke]

Then write one and submit a PI to the appropriate technical committee.

Closing me eyes- "no supporting evidence, reject"

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Closing me eyes- "no supporting evidence, reject"

Exactly. You have to have actual incidents that caused a problem to make a change like that.

 

[mbrooke]

Exactly. You have to have actual incidents that caused a problem to make a change like that.

I know.

The question is how many more incidents do we need?

Why do people have to learn about these things on the news or in court rooms?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I know.

The question is how many more incidents do we need?

Why do people have to learn about these things on the news or in court rooms?

Do you have specific incidents in mind where a code change would have made a difference? Without a history of a problem codes are not changed.

 

[mbrooke]

That is because there was a TIA that removed health care occupancies from that list. Healthcare is not under the purview of NFPA 70, it is an NFPA 99 issue. The tie between NFPA 99 and NFPA 70 is article 517. The fact that health care requirements were in Article 700 was that CMP overstepping their role.

But what if NFPA 99 wants 700 requirments for the life safety branch? Or did so at one point?

 

[mbrooke]

Do you have specific incidents in mind where a code change would have made a difference? Without a history of a problem codes are not changed.

And there in lays the issue, the heart of all tragedy.

So why even have 517?

You think Texas isn't wishing for a time machine?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

But what if NFPA 99 wants 700 requirments for the life safety branch? Or did so at one point?

If 99 wants those requirements in 517 they will be put in 517. They have the purview over the rules.

 

[mbrooke]

If 99 wants those requirements in 517 they will be put in 517. They have the purview over the rules.

So why is NFPA 99 ok with generator and fire protection on the life safety branch but nothing for the critical branch?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

And there in lays the issue, the heart of all tragedy.

So why even have 517?

You think Texas isn't wishing for a time machine?

We have 517 for two reasons...99 is not often legally adopted, but 70 is. The second reason is that the rules in 99 are more performance based and those in 70 are more prescriptive.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

So why is NFPA 99 ok with generator and fire protection on the life safety branch but nothing for the critical branch?

I have no idea...have never studied 99.

However, a lot of the rules are based on cost. Hospital administrators have a seat at the table in the 99 technical committees. That is one of the major reasons 517 has coordination, and 700 and 701 have selective coordination.

 

[mbrooke]

I have no idea...have never studied 99.

However, a lot of the rules are based on cost. Hospital administrators have a seat at the table in the 99 technical committees. That is one of the major reasons 517 has coordination, and 700 and 701 have selective coordination.

Sadly, they are, even the 1970's ROPs mention cost.

However, requiring 3 branches from what probably stems from no selective coordination brings up cost in of itself.

 

[mbrooke]

We have 517 for two reasons...99 is not often legally adopted, but 70 is. The second reason is that the rules in 99 are more performance based and those in 70 are more prescriptive.

70s rules appear stricter than 99.

I still can't figure out who exactly put life support on the back burner to the point it was eliminated.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

70s rules appear stricter than 99.

I still can't figure out who exactly put life support on the back burner to the point it was eliminated.

Have a good night, I am done with this

 

[mbrooke]

Have a good night, I am done with this

You finally realize hospitals following NFPA 99 or NFPA70 have an electrical system incapable of providing life support?

 

[mbrooke]

Lastly, I leave readers with this excerpt from 708.

When NYU Langone Medical Center and Bellevue Hospital were left dark while Goldman Sachs was lit, that was not by chance.







This borders, if not flat out stemming on...

 

[mbrooke]

Eaton's candid interpretation:

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/e...g-always-on-power-for-reliable-healthcare.pdf

This borders, if not flat out stemming on...

Which is more or less confirmed.

Life support is not a consideration or concern in 99 or 70. Only getting out of the building.

 

[romex jockey]

Very sad to see the code eliminated what was present US hospitals and what is still required for hospitals in all other developed countries

which maybe wouldn't be so bad, if we made up the dif in 'isolate in place' building codes elsewhere....~S~

 

[mbrooke]

which maybe wouldn't be so bad, if we made up the dif in 'isolate in place' building codes elsewhere....~S~

There is no way you can move this though:

https://imgur.com/GE0Zk42

https://imgur.com/NvEBUKY

https://imgur.com/FR1mgp0

https://imgur.com/ka7Bbk7

https://imgur.com/eJpWlct

Your talking about 30+ pieces of equipment filling up open space rooms, tubing that can't be disturbed for reasons of pressure, flow and real time delivery.

Shelter in place is the only option, the power system must reflect this.

 

[romex jockey]

Shelter in place is the only option, the power system must reflect this.

in a broader overview.....along with every other system MBrooke ~RJ~

 

[mbrooke]

in a broader overview.....along with every other system MBrooke ~RJ~

Correct! Every system intended for life support must be protected against fire, not just life safety.

In practice people can find their way down a dark stairwell with their phone, the less fortunate don't that luxury for their machines.