Lighting branch circuits with 30A CB in panelboard, Industrial Operating facility.

Status
Not open for further replies.
retirede said:
Not a presumption. OP indicated this in post 38, otherwise I wouldn’t have mentioned it.
Click to expand...

By his reference to 240.5 in post 38, I would need more manufacturer substantiation before I was convinced. Perhaps the OP can provide the manufacturer name and fixture model or a cut sheet.
 
I've installed 30A branch circuits in lighting panels throughout heavy industry and never had a problem selling it to inspectors. 210.23(B) was originally intended for HID lighting, not LED's which by default fall into "utilization equipment in any occupancy..." I.e.they're not lamp. NEC 210.20(B) is the real key to protecting lighting circuits. Article 404 needs to be reviewed for switching devices. All need to be rated 30A including the fixture.
 
Dale001289 said:
210.23(B) was originally intended for HID lighting, not LED's which by default fall into "utilization equipment in any occupancy..." I.e.they're not lamp.
Click to expand...

If 210.23(B) was originally intended to make sure that only HID lighting could be supplied by 30A circuits, then LED lighting can't be supplied by 30A circuits...Until such time that the NEC changes the language in 210.23(B).
 
Dale001289 said:
I've installed 30A branch circuits in lighting panels throughout heavy industry and never had a problem selling it to inspectors. 210.23(B) was originally intended for HID lighting, not LED's which by default fall into "utilization equipment in any occupancy..." I.e.they're not lamp. NEC 210.20(B) is the real key to protecting lighting circuits. Article 404 needs to be reviewed for switching devices. All need to be rated 30A including the fixture.
Click to expand...

How is it not a fixed lighting unit?
 
infinity said:
How is it not a fixed lighting unit?
Click to expand...

NEC is a guideline for electrical safety. OP has the branch adequately protected with correctly sized wire (provided no 'derates' apply) and everything is rated for 30A. Arguing over a definition that is vague at best seems absurd, but that's just me.
 
Dale001289 said:
NEC is a guideline for electrical safety. OP has the branch adequately protected with correctly sized wire (provided no 'derates' apply) and everything is rated for 30A. Arguing over a definition that is vague at best seems absurd, but that's just me.
Click to expand...

How do you know the fixture is rated for 30A?

The Code is clear what type of fixed lighting unit can be supplied by a 30A circuit. Arguing that you can ignore that Code section seems absurd to me.
 
based upon the arguments, looks like we have a valid winner for a code that either needs modified or clarified in the next cycle allowed... Are LED lights utilization circuits, thus capable of being designed for use on various ampacities including 30 amp, thus requiring the circuit designer to account for the 125% rule in commercial and retail environments, or is it lighting only, thus manufacturers must comply with the no more than 16 amp draw? That is what I would argue, based upon the ideas given and argued here...

But, would probably be thrown out as not necessary by people who do not see the problem in the wording of Heavy Duty Light Assembly...lol. Since they probably do not know that LED assemblies have no heavy duty base to use.
 
david luchini said:
How do you know the fixture is rated for 30A?

The Code is clear what type of fixed lighting unit can be supplied by a 30A circuit. Arguing that you can ignore that Code section seems absurd to me.
Click to expand...

That's about it, it's either permitted by 210.21 or it isn't. Fixed lighting units in that section are well described as to what's needed to comply. It has nothing to do with what the manufacturer says.
 
I guess Charlie's Rule doesn't apply in this case. Most everyone is happy to add the word "other" to the actual text of 210.23(B), reading the section as if it said "or other utilization equipment".

Cheers, Wayne
 
david luchini said:
How do you know the fixture is rated for 30A?

The Code is clear what type of fixed lighting unit can be supplied by a 30A circuit. Arguing that you can ignore that Code section seems absurd to me.
Click to expand...

The code is clearly not clear about LED's. If it were, this string would have ended many posts ago. Making a case over the definition of heavy-duty lamp-holders is incredibly weak. The intent of the Code has been met provided the OP resurfaces with proof of a 30A rated LED.
 
Dale001289 said:

The code is clearly not clear about LED's. If it were, this string would have ended many posts ago. Making a case over the definition of heavy-duty lamp-holders is incredibly weak. The intent of the Code has been met provided the OP resurfaces with proof of a 30A rated LED.
Click to expand...

The Code is completely clear. This string would have ended many posts ago if people weren't trying to find excuses for ignoring what the Code say. (And the only person making an argument over the definition of heavy-duty lampholder is the OP.)

The intent of the Code will not be met if the OP resurfaces with proof of a 30A rated LED. The intent of the Code would only be met if the OP resurfaces with proof of an LED fixture with heavy-duty lampholders...which of course, he won't, because LED lighting units don't have heavy-duty lamp holders.
 
Dale001289 said:

The code is clearly not clear about LED's. If it were, this string would have ended many posts ago. Making a case over the definition of heavy-duty lamp-holders is incredibly weak. The intent of the Code has been met provided the OP resurfaces with proof of a 30A rated LED.
Click to expand...
Do LED luminaires even have a lampholder?

Retrofit LED lamp into an old luminaire isn't the same thing.

I think same thing applied when T5 fluorescents were the popular replacement for HID luminaires - they didn't meet the requirement of having a heavy duty lampholder either and therefore can't be on 30-50 amp circuits either.

Have you ever seen continuous row fluorescent lighting on 30 - 50 amp branch circuits? Same thing applies to them, and they have been around for a long time.
 
david luchini said:
The Code is completely clear. This string would have ended many posts ago if people weren't trying to find excuses for ignoring what the Code say. (And the only person making an argument over the definition of heavy-duty lampholder is the OP.)

The intent of the Code will not be met if the OP resurfaces with proof of a 30A rated LED. The intent of the Code would only be met if the OP resurfaces with proof of an LED fixture with heavy-duty lampholders...which of course, he won't, because LED lighting units don't have heavy-duty lamp holders.
Click to expand...

The LED can't have a heavy-duty lampholder because its not a lamp. If OP comes back with a vendor document that shows a 30A rated LED the intent of the Code will have been met.
 
Dale001289 said:
The LED can't have a heavy-duty lampholder because its not a lamp. If OP comes back with a vendor document that shows a 30A rated LED the intent of the Code will have been met.
Click to expand...

And if it can't have a heavy-duty lampholder, it can't be supplied by a 30A circuit by Code. It's not really complicated.
 
Dale001289 said:
unless of course its utilization equipment - see definition, Art 100; not complicated at all.
Click to expand...

So you just want to ignore the first part of 230.23(B)? Ignoring Code sections is generally not a good idea.

For a fixed lighting unit to be supplied by a 30A circuit, it must have heavy duty lampholders and it must not be in a dwelling unit.
 
david luchini said:
So you just want to ignore the first part of 230.23(B)? Ignoring Code sections is generally not a good idea.

For a fixed lighting unit to be supplied by a 30A circuit, it must have heavy duty lampholders and it must not be in a dwelling unit.
Click to expand...

Rather than engage in a circular argument over which is best, 'plaid or striped shirts', I'm going to drop out of this one. Have fun.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top