lighting outlet

[macmikeman]

Interesting. I think it's an AHJ interpratation thing. Ask yourself "is this a hill I want to die on?". Why not just install a cheapo light kit to make the inspector happy? I've fought awfully hard for lesser things so there's no wrong answer.

Ask yourself "is this a hill I want to die on?". I like that saying. I think I will ask this myself next time I run across a simple code rule misunderstanding with insp. that can be easy to comply with.

 

[dlhoule]

This question reminds me of the way they are reviewing officials decisions in football games now. I most cases an appeal won't be overturned without conclusive evidence the original call was wrong.

I find this question the same way. If it is reviewed there is not enough evidence to overturn it.

I also think most inspectors will let it pass.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim, below is where the inspector has a strong argument supporting his stance.



The fan prevents this doesn't it.

Roger

NO it does not as long as it can accept a light kit,and most do.Now where do we stand ?
Let me add this, just how long does it take to remove a fan ? 5 minutes tops,almost as long as removing a blank.

I do agree that he is right that no light kit will, likely ever be installed ,but no guarranty that a lamp will ever be pluged into the qualifieying receptical either.This is about giving a horse water but cant force him to drink.

Just what do you call that opening at bottom of fan with blue and white wires marked LIGHT KIT

 

[roger]

Okay Jim, whatever you say.

I guess in your opinion if the bathroom receptacle was covered by a mirror you could tell the inspector it is there and all he would have to do is lift the mirror off it's hangers to access it, it only takes a screw driver and about five minutes, so it must be legal.

I didn't realize time and tools were the key to this.

Just what do you call that opening at bottom of fan with blue and white wires marked LIGHT KIT

I don't know, but we do know the fan is not a "luminaire" by your own admission

Roger

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Okay Jim, whatever you say.

I guess in your opinion if the bathroom receptacle was covered by a mirror you could tell the inspector it is there and all he would have to do is lift the mirror off it's hangers to access it, it only takes a screw driver and about five minutes, so it must be legal.

I didn't realize time and tools were the key to this.


I don't know, but we do know the fan is not a "luminaire" by your own admission

Roger

Never said it was a luminaire and there is no requirement to have one either.Just need outlet.Got you this time and you know it. I really want to side with this inspector on this because i know what he is after but cant.An outlet is not a luminaire it is just a point to attach one and the fan provides one.

How about this ,mr inspector please hold this blue wire while i try to locate the light outlet

 

[roger]

Jim, what do you mean you got me this time? If you think the "Lighting Outlet" covered with a fan meets the requirement of the definition

Lighting Outlet. An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder, a luminaire (lighting fixture), or a pendant cord terminating in a lampholder.

then there is no reason that we can expect a rational conclusion from you is there? You are going to think this is black and white through the grey regardless.

BTW, where do you get the idea I'm arguing for the inspector, I'm pointing out what he sees as the violation, and I'm not the only one in this thread that sees it this way, so get over the idea you "got me this time and I know it"

I already said , "Okay Jim what ever you say", so I guess we will leave it there.

Roger

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Jim, what do you mean you got me this time? If you think the "Lighting Outlet" covered with a fan meets the requirement of the definition

then there is no reason that we can expect a rational conclusion from you is there? You are going to think this is black and white through the grey regardless.

BTW, where do you get the idea I'm arguing for the inspector, I'm pointing out what he sees as the violation, and I'm not the only one in this thread that sees it this way, so get over the idea you "got me this time and I know it"

I already said , "Okay Jim what ever you say", so I guess we will leave it there.

Roger

Lighting Outlet. An outlet intended for the direct connection of a lampholder, a luminaire (lighting fixture), or a pendant cord terminating in a lampholder.

And just what do you call that cover with the blue and white wire under it ? Instructions are very clear on why its there and how to use it.I dont mind being proved wrong,i rather enjoy it and learn from it.

 

[pjg]

Well, I'm sorta of surprised by all the comments about my situation. I feel that we have installed a "lighting outlet" as required by code and the definition of lighting outlet has the words "intended" it certainly does not read that a light fixture/luminaire "shall" be installed. futhermore, if a fan is installed what makes anyone think that that box that the fan is attached to has changed-it is still the "lighting outlet".the outlet was put there with the "intent" of installing a luminaire. While I agree that it will be odd not to have a switched light in the room ,I can not see where there is a code violation in not installing a luminaire.

 

[celtic]

I can not see where there is a code violation in not installing a luminaire.

I completely agree with you.

 

[pjg]

I completely agree with you.

It seemed pretty cut and dried to me in the first place.

lighting outlet required --- yes

luminaire required ---no

 

[al hildenbrand]

And just what do you call that cover with the blue and white wire under it ? Instructions are very clear on why its there and how to use it.

At the final inspection, I'd call it the same thing I'd call a ceiling box with a blank cover. . .

A junction box.

 

[ceknight]

....I can not see where there is a code violation in not installing a luminaire.

The issue is that you have installed a non-luminaire, NOT that you have not installed a luminaire. It's a fine point, but remarkably important.

By installing a non-luminaire you have demonstrated that there is no intent to install a luminaire there.

It's only a lighting outlet if you intend it to be for a luminaire. Or put another way, if you do not intend it to be for a luminaire, it's not a lighting outlet.

You demonstrated that you do not intend it to be for a luminaire by installing the non-luminaire, and in doing so caused that switched box to no longer be a lighting outlet.

That a bit clearer?

 

[pipemaster]

I recently failed a final inspection on a new home due to the fact that we installed a ceiling fan w/o a light kit in a bedroom, this fan is controlled by a switch. My thought is that we installed a lighting outlet ,as required, I can not find a code reference that requires a light fixture to be installed, any thoughts?

thanks, pjg

This is too easy. Install the light because a FAN is not a light but if you installed a switched receptacle then he is wrong. If I had to guess though, I don't think you provide a switched receptacle so install the light.

 

[neal]

210.70 (A) (1) when we have the word shall in a statement,the inspector can not change the requirement 90.5(A) A light is needed.

 

[celtic]

210.70 (A) (1) when we have the word shall in a statement,the inspector can not change the requirement 90.5(A) A light is needed.

210.70(A) merely states that a lighting OUTLET shall be required.....no where does it say that a LUMINAIRE shall be installed.

 

[al hildenbrand]

no where does it say that a LUMINAIRE shall be installed.

So. . .

When you wire a new home you can get the final electrical inspection and the certificate of occupancy, as well as get your total payment for a job completed by saying "I intend to put luminaires in that dark house" ?

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

So. . .

When you wire a new home you can get the final electrical inspection and the certificate of occupancy, as well as get your total payment for a job completed by saying "I intend to put luminaires in that dark house" ?

You can if what the contract called for is blanks.

 

[al hildenbrand]

You can if what the contract called for is blanks.

True to the final on my inspection and getting paid. . .

But the property is still not going to get a certificate of occupancy until the required minimums are met. I or someone else is going to have to pull another permit and have another final inspection before the dwelling is complete.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

True to the final on my inspection and getting paid. . .

But the property is still not going to get a certificate of occupancy until the required minimums are met. I or someone else is going to have to pull another permit and have another final inspection before the dwelling is complete.

Watch carefully that they dont do the other work on your permit.

 

[George Stolz]

The issue is that you have installed a non-luminaire, NOT that you have not installed a luminaire. It's a fine point, but remarkably important.

By installing a non-luminaire you have demonstrated that there is no intent to install a luminaire there.

It's only a lighting outlet if you intend it to be for a luminaire. Or put another way, if you do not intend it to be for a luminaire, it's not a lighting outlet.

You demonstrated that you do not intend it to be for a luminaire by installing the non-luminaire, and in doing so caused that switched box to no longer be a lighting outlet.

That a bit clearer?

Very well put. The outlet in the ceiling with the fan attached to it is not a lighting outlet anymore, until a light kit is installed on the fan.

Interesting that a blank is more legal than a fan with no light kit, but I have come to the conclusion after some more thought on it; that, despite how goofy that is, the wording supports this opinion.

I stand corrected.