mobile home & ground rods

[iwire]

Interesting, so we can just ignore all code requirements contained in Chapters 1-4. Cool!:lol::lol::happyno:

Yes this is what i am saying except where referenced like in 550.15.

So based on your statement above what ampacity table shall I use when dealing with a mobile home?

 

[david]

OK, given that, what size conductors do I use for this service?

(I) Mast Weatherhead or Raceway. Where the calculated load exceeds 50 amperes or where a permanent feeder is used, the supply shall be by means of either of the following:
(1) One mast weatherhead installation, installed in accordance with Article 230, containing four continuous, insulated, color-coded feeder conductors, one of which shall be an equipment grounding conductor
(2) A metal raceway or rigid nonmetallic conduit from the disconnecting means in the mobile home to the underside of the mobile home, with provisions for the attachment to a suitable junction box or fitting to the raceway on the underside of the mobile home [with or without conductors as in 550.10(I)(1)]. The manufacturer shall provide written installation instructions stating the proper feeder conductor sizes for the raceway and the size of the junction box to be used.

 

[jwelectric]

OK, given that, what size conductors do I use for this service?

See 550.33(B)

 

[david]

OK, given that, what size conductors do I use for this service?

B) Manufactured Home Service Equipment. The manufactured home service equipment shall be permitted to be installed in or on a manufactured home, provided that all of the following conditions are met:
(1) The manufacturer shall include in its written installation instructions information indicating that the home shall be secured in place by an anchoring system or installed on and secured to a permanent foundation.
(2) The installation of the service shall comply with Part I through Part VII of Article 230.

 

[iwire]

See 550.33(B)

550.33 Feeder.

(B) Feeder Capacity. Mobile home and manufactured
home lot feeder circuit conductors shall have a capacity not
less than the loads supplied, shall be rated at not less than
100 amperes, and shall be permitted to be sized in accordance
with 310.15(B)(6).

First of that is a 'shall be permitted' not a 'shall be' but be that as it may .......

So this feeder originates from thin air?

Or do I just guess how to build the service?

 

[david]

First of that is a 'shall be permitted' not a 'shall be' but be that as it may .......

So this feeder originates from thin air?

Or do I just guess how to build the service?

As you ask this question i went to NEC CD rom typed in 230 hit search clicked on article 550 Would you like me to post every section 230 was referanced

 

[david]

I am not sure yet how this will pan out with each question you ask to try and prove that article 550 missed something by statement or reference
If you prove something was missed is the scoping wrong or does another reference need added to the article

 

[iwire]

I am not sure yet how this will pan out with each question you ask to try and prove that article 550 missed something by statement or reference.

And I feel much the same way over your refusal to acknowledge what 90.3 tells us and 250.32 requires.

 

[iwire]

As you ask this question i went to NEC CD rom typed in 230 hit search clicked on article 550 Would you like me to post every section 230 was referanced

I would love it if you could just tell me where in 550 it tells me what ampacity table to use for the service conductors you tell me are under the scope of 550.

 

[jwelectric]

I would love it if you could just tell me where in 550 it tells me what ampacity table to use for the service conductors you tell me are under the scope of 550.

550.33 Feeder.

(B) Feeder Capacity. Mobile home and manufactured
home lot feeder circuit conductors shall have a capacity not
less than the loads supplied, shall be rated at not less than
100 amperes, and shall be permitted to be sized in accordance
with 310.15(B)(6).

First of that is a 'shall be permitted' not a 'shall be' but be that as it may .......

So this feeder originates from thin air?

Or do I just guess how to build the service?

What it says is, ?shall not be less than the load supplied but you have permission to use 310.15(B)(6) instead of using the larger conductor of 310.16. It is a mandatory rule

550 could care less how you build the service it is only concerned on the load side of that service.

 

[david]

I would love it if you could just tell me where in 550 it tells me what ampacity table to use for the service conductors you tell me are under the scope of 550.

(B) Feeder Capacity. Mobile home and manufactured home lot feeder circuit conductors shall have a capacity not less than the loads supplied, shall be rated at not less than 100 amperes, and shall be permitted to be sized in accordance with 310.15(B)(6).

Will you except 310.15(B) (6)

Sorry i got behind had to leave for a bit
i see that was already posted

 

[david]

First of that is a 'shall be permitted' not a 'shall be' but be that as it may .......

So this feeder originates from thin air?

Or do I just guess how to build the service?

First look a the definition of feeder assembly
for mobile homes

Then please notice in a mobile home park the scoping ends at the connection to the service entrance conductors.

 

[pfalcon]

... At least that is how I see it.

But it's time for the :dunce: question of the day.

Why are we calling the mobile home a separate structure? Isn't the mobile home the target structure for the service drop? If I hang a service on a building and run a feeder to the far side am I required to have a second ground rod?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

But it's time for the :dunce: question of the day.

Why are we calling the mobile home a separate structure? Isn't the mobile home the target structure for the service drop? If I hang a service on a building and run a feeder to the far side am I required to have a second ground rod?

Because the service is not installed on the mobile home. The service itself is the first structure for a mobile home.

 

[pfalcon]

... Why are we calling the mobile home a separate structure? Isn't the mobile home the target structure for the service drop? If I hang a service on a building and run a feeder to the far side am I required to have a second ground rod?

Because the service is not installed on the mobile home. The service itself is the first structure for a mobile home.

I vehemently object to that broad definition of a structure. I refuse to install a ground rod for my Christmas decorations just because I decided to use OCPDs.

I also object that it would be considered a separate structure. Article 550.32 forces the location of the service drop for the mobile home. My intent for the service drop is to be a part of the building but code is requiring it to be adjacent (within 30').

Of course, maybe I should rethink those decorations, I mean they do want to blow around in the wind so they could use a good anchor

 

[iwire]

I vehemently object to that broad definition of a structure. I refuse to install a ground rod for my Christmas decorations just because I decided to use OCPDs.

Then you should first put in a proposal to the building code to have it changed there, and then the NEC to have it changed in the NEC.

The NEC definition is taken from the building codes, at least that is what I have been told.

 

[iwire]

First look a the definition of feeder assembly
for mobile homes

Then please notice in a mobile home park the scoping ends at the connection to the service entrance conductors.

I agree, I will drop my references to services.

 

[pfalcon]

Then you should first put in a proposal to the building code to have it changed there, and then the NEC to have it changed in the NEC.
The NEC definition is taken from the building codes, at least that is what I have been told.

Okay, and I certainly agree about proposing a change, though I've never done it before
And I would need help finding the building code.
I believe it lowers the credibility of the NEC to permit the definition of structure to be so broadly interpreted.

And I still have a conflict with remote.

... and where these disconnecting means are located remote from ...

... shall be located adjacent ... and not more than 9.00 m (30 ft) ...

It seems that 550.32(A) defines that the service must be more than 30' away to be considered remote. IMO

 

[david]

Yes this is what i am saying except where referenced like in 550.15.
What is being discussed here is the grounding electrode system. I would inject into the conversation section 550.4(C)

Ok 550.4(C) Is worth noting
Coupled with 550.1

So separate structures like sheds or garages even if supplied from mobile home service equipment are not an article 550 structure
ALL the general requirements would apply to them

 

[Smart $]

...I also object that it would be considered a separate structure. Article 550.32 forces the location of the service drop for the mobile home. My intent for the service drop is to be a part of the building but code is requiring it to be adjacent (within 30').

Then you should first put in a proposal to the building code to have it changed there, and then the NEC to have it changed in the NEC.

The NEC definition is taken from the building codes, at least that is what I have been told.

I don't see the need for any change. The definitions...

Service Drop. The overhead service conductors from the
last pole or other aerial support to and including the splices,
if any, connecting to the service-entrance conductors at the
building or other structure.

Service-Entrance Conductors, Overhead System. The
service conductors between the terminals of the service
equipment and a point usually outside the building, clear of
building walls, where joined by tap or splice to the service
drop.

...include the appropriate language without consideration solely for a mobile or manufactured home.