Moonlighting

[haskindm]

Jeff,
Unfortunately the board has no authority to go after these people. The only authority that we have is to revoke the license, and since they do not have a license, there is nothing to revoke. The State Board has no authority to prosecute these people either. They have asked for the authority to fine violators up to $1000 but the legislators will not grant them the authority, I believe because many of them hire "moonlighters". We asked the state's attorney to prosecute the person that forged his employer's signature, but he refused to act. We had one person advertising in the yellow pages that he was "LICENSED AND BONDED" when he was neither. We know of at least one service change that he did without working with the Power Company (they will not schedule a "work with" for someone without a license) so he changed the service panel "hot". Again, no action was taken. The person forging inspections was caught when his employer was notified of a violation on a job for which he had not submitted an inspection. It took several weeks to get things sorted out and in the meantime the homeowner could not occupy the house, go to settlement, or get a final inspection. Everybody loses in these situations.

 

[jeff43222]

I think this is a good illustration of something that's bad for the industry. A electrical license doesn't mean much if it's treated as essentially optional by the authorities. The state is in charge of prosecuting people who violate the electrical laws (all misdemeanors) here, but the attorney general's office says that with the budget they have, they have bigger fish to fry than some handyman who does electrical work without a license. I'm sure they'd act if Joe Handyman's wiring work burned down the house or injured/killed someone, though. Too bad they won't act before that happens.

Imagine getting pulled over for speeding, and when the cop asks for your driver's license, you tell him you don't have one. You wouldn't expect the cop to shrug and say, "Oh, never mind."

 

[growler]

Plumber: Hey, I've got 25 years of experience and 13 licenses! I'm licensed by the same agency that licenses doctors!
First of all, doctors and plumbers are not licensed by the same agency. Even if they were, why he thinks that "fact" would be relevant is a mystery to me.

I see your point Jeff. If plumbers and doctors were licensed by the same agency then plumbers would have to lower their rates.

 

[speedystevie]

If you do electrical work you should:
Be licensed if required.
Carry insurance as required by law.
Charge a competitive rate.
Do quality work.
Pay business fee's to the state and federal government like the rest of us who run a business.

If you do side work charging $20 per hour you are a scab in my book. If you work for a company then work for the company, if you want to run a business then do so. Don't undercut the guy who is doing the right thing by paying his taxes and corp. expenses.

I have no respect for people who do side work, its illegal and hurts the industry.
My opinion.

 

[emahler]

Just for the record, the definition of moonlighting for the purposes of this thread is simple : an unlicensed electrician who works for another company (or the local union) and does work on the side.

I am not referring to guys who are licensed/insured, etc and are still working for a company while trying to start their own company.

I am not talking about the guy who does work for his family on the weekends.

I am referring to the guy who works mon-fri for a company, then does sidework nights and weekends, for pay, for people he is not related to or close to.

 

[emahler]

haskin,

thank you for putting my thoughts into words. I can usually choose my words fairly well, but this subject is pretty near and dear, so I tend to get quite emotional about it.

Thank you.

 

[mdshunk]

There's plenty of work to go around. Unless there's an Amish hostile takeover, there will always be plenty of electrical work to do. I don't really care what a man does in his free time. It's a free country, and every man has a right to work. I hope, for his sake, that he is properly insured. I also hope, for his sake again, that I don't catch him using my truck on his side job.

 

[emahler]

There's plenty of work to go around. Unless there's an Amish hostile takeover, there will always be plenty of electrical work to do. I don't really care what a man does in his free time. It's a free country, and every man has a right to work. I hope, for his sake, that he is properly insured. I also hope, for his sake again, that I don't catch him using my truck on his side job.

Marc, again not talking about someone who is starting or running his own legal business on the side. I know your area does not require licensing, but many states do (like NJ for instance)

How do you feel about the guy who doesn't hold the state license or any insurance, going out and working on the side for cash?

 

[satcom]

So far, I see this as something we run into on an ongoing basis.

"As a smaller contractor I can't tell you how many times I've been called to fix someone elses sidejob. I think the issue is that while most journeyman are competant installers, they don't know or wont admit when they get in too deep making design decisions that they aren't used to making. I'm not faulting them for their errors. I made them too when I first started. I fault them for when they finally see their mistake, and instead of taking the hit and doing it right they cheat and run. I've been there, I've walked in to customers with my hat in my hand, to them I screwed up and put my cards on the table. Some people respect that and help you cover your costs, most don't. Thats life. Man if I had a nickel..."

And the customers will tell you, the guy will not come back, the other is many times, they fail to get the job premited, leaving the homeowner, in a bad position if something should go wrong.

The guys doing the side work, can't see the bad side of it, just the pocket money, they will argue, how unfair it is to need a lic. and without any real risk, or real insvement in a business, tell us we charge to much, when most of them have no idea what the cost of operating a ligit business is.

 

[mdshunk]

How do you feel about the guy who doesn't hold the state license or any insurance, going out and working on the side for cash?

There always were, and will continue to be, a certain amount of these guys. They will always exist, whether I like it or not. My main point was that it does not affect me. If it does, I don't know it. This is an age old "problem" (if it's a problem at all), which has no real solution. It has always existed, and will continue to exist, at a tolerable level. Don't sweat it. They cater to the bottom feeders anyhow, who are generally folks that I like to weed out of my customer list. Let them have that work.

 

[John Valdes]

I have nothing against moonlighting. I used to moonlight to pay for health insurance and other benefits not provided by the (EC).
But don't use company trucks, equipment or materials. I had a company president EC that would pass small jobs to me. Jobs he knew he could'nt make money on, but he knew I could put a few bucks in my pocket. He even let me use the truck (fully equiped)......Great Man

 

[emahler]

I have nothing against moonlighting. I used to moonlight to pay for health insurance and other benefits not provided by the (EC).
But don't use company trucks, equipment or materials. I had a company president EC that would pass small jobs to me. Jobs he knew he could'nt make money on, but he knew I could put a few bucks in my pocket. He even let me use the truck (fully equiped)......Great Man

oh, the irony

 

[satcom]

"EC that would pass small jobs to me. Jobs he knew he could'nt make money on,"


EC that promotes side work, it's worse then i thought!


Mary' How about doing that root canal, i can't make money on that patient!

 

[mdshunk]

"EC that promotes side work, it's worse then i thought!

Are you trying to say that you're not busy? I don't even know you, but I think not.

 

[emahler]

what does being busy have to do with not paying your guys enough and promoting side work?

 

[mdshunk]

what does being busy have to do with not paying your guys enough and promoting side work?

Spoken like an employee.

 

[satcom]

"Are you trying to say that you're not busy? I don't even know you, but I think not."


As long as everyone looks the other way, and allows un licensed, non permited work to continue, the entire industry will pay the price.

Many of the long established EC's will not join in any of the electrical sites, they read some of the posts and walk away, this is a loss for everyone, many of them could contribute valuable information, as long as they see some of the outragous statements of how some operate, they stay clear.

 

[mdshunk]

Many of the long established EC's will not join in any of the electrical sites, they read some of the posts and walk away, this is a loss for everyone, many of them could contribute valuable information, as long as they see some of the outragous statements of how some operate, they stay clear.

The long established EC's don't have the time to commit to forum sites. They are indulging in other activities. The preponderance of forum participators are, by and large, middle of the road operators. This has nothing to do with the quality of the content, but more to do with the time comittment required. This is true on all trade related forum sites.

 

[emahler]

Spoken like an employee.

lol...i still don't understand what you mean...

 

[mdshunk]

lol...i still don't understand what you mean...

Maybe the direct approach is in order. Are you an employee or a business owner or both?