Moonlighting
- Thread starter emahler
- Start date
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yep, no licensing required there. My parents have a cabin not to far from him. In their area, the only electrical only contractors are commercial EC's. Everyone else is GC, EC, PC, HVAC, etc.
My question really has nothing to do with the competence of the installer, we all know licensed and insured contractors that should not be allowed near a wire. We also all know mechanics who know the code inside and out, and do great work, but can't pass the exam.
It's simply about the legality and effect on those involved.
My question really has nothing to do with the competence of the installer, we all know licensed and insured contractors that should not be allowed near a wire. We also all know mechanics who know the code inside and out, and do great work, but can't pass the exam.
It's simply about the legality and effect on those involved.
Dnkldorf
Senior Member
Moonlighters don't bother me at all, they are usually found doing work for resi customers, and for those looking to have things done cheap.
If you're in that market, you have to learn to deal with, you ain't going stop them.
In my market, I don't compete against moonlighters. My customer base would never think of hiring them, there is too much risk on their end.
When resi customers call looking for work, I pass it on to guys I know, who can do the work. You may see it as wrong, but I'm helping both people out. The customer looking for a decent electrician, and the guy looking to make a couple extra bucks.
If you're in that market, you have to learn to deal with, you ain't going stop them.
In my market, I don't compete against moonlighters. My customer base would never think of hiring them, there is too much risk on their end.
When resi customers call looking for work, I pass it on to guys I know, who can do the work. You may see it as wrong, but I'm helping both people out. The customer looking for a decent electrician, and the guy looking to make a couple extra bucks.
JohnE
Senior Member
- Location
- Milford, MA
Moonlighters as defined here in this thread bother me. It's unethical and hurts the industry and legitimate contractors.
But I don't spend much time dwelling on it. The consumer gets what they are paying for. A guy with no license and insurance illegally performing work. If that makes him happy, great.
If the moonlighting were above the board, I'd have no problem with it. That would mean licensed, insured, pulling permits, and paying taxes. Just doing the work on his own time.
But I don't spend much time dwelling on it. The consumer gets what they are paying for. A guy with no license and insurance illegally performing work. If that makes him happy, great.
If the moonlighting were above the board, I'd have no problem with it. That would mean licensed, insured, pulling permits, and paying taxes. Just doing the work on his own time.
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Some thoughts on this post;
1st. There are moonlighters, union contractors and non-union contractors that do substandard work, and there are there are some moonlighters, union contractors and non-union contractors that do top quality work.
2nd. Moonlighters should be very careful in this litigious society they could lose it all very fast.
3rd. If you moonlight and use the bosses truck, material or do work for any of his customers or potential customers than you are a thief, plan and simple you are stealing.
4th. I quit my job prior to contacting any potential customers and informed my boss what I was going to do, I did no work for others under my new company prior to quitting, I had no income and I struggled for a while, but I wanted a clean slate with no accusations of customer stealing.
5th . If you do this as a second job and your boss knows, go for it. Some of my employees do residential work, they use their own truck, have their own insurance, licenses and do not compete for my customers (I do only commercial work)
1st. There are moonlighters, union contractors and non-union contractors that do substandard work, and there are there are some moonlighters, union contractors and non-union contractors that do top quality work.
2nd. Moonlighters should be very careful in this litigious society they could lose it all very fast.
3rd. If you moonlight and use the bosses truck, material or do work for any of his customers or potential customers than you are a thief, plan and simple you are stealing.
4th. I quit my job prior to contacting any potential customers and informed my boss what I was going to do, I did no work for others under my new company prior to quitting, I had no income and I struggled for a while, but I wanted a clean slate with no accusations of customer stealing.
5th . If you do this as a second job and your boss knows, go for it. Some of my employees do residential work, they use their own truck, have their own insurance, licenses and do not compete for my customers (I do only commercial work)
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
kingpb said:
It really doesn't take much to get material delivered. Rexel around here will deliver on a $50. order. I've ordered 2 bronze weather proof boxes to mount on molluns (store front window frames, sorry about the spelling) to mount fire alarm equipment, and throw in a roll of 12-2 to make up the $50. The large outfits are driving the price down to the point there is no sence at all for me to bother with new residential. Used to be around here the small guy could always pick up a few generals doing a few neighborhoods.
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
John Valdes said:
I'd say he was afraid to price these jobs to make money. The first thing I had to learn when I started my business was that the price that I thought the job was worth, was not going to pay my bills at the end of the month. I have a different idea of what these jobs are worth now. I make very good money giving prices for jobs that I know other people don't want to get involved with.
brian john said:
Brian, let's look at this situation, you do commercial only. Your guys moonlight (licensed, unlicensed, whatever) doing residential. But since you are covering their daily expenses and medical, they basically have to cover their vehicle, maybe insurance and the rest is theirs. So they cut everyones price.
Contractors, who like you employee people, pay taxes, benefits, etc, but only do residential work, keep losing jobs to these guys. So the residential contractor says "the heck with this, I can't compete, I'm going after commercial work."
Problem is, they don't know how to price commercial work, so they drastically underbid you. Now you start losing work to these guys who have no business in the commercial sector.
What do you do?
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
This is America. We have a long tradition of people working second and third jobs to get ahead, and even of employers that accomodate such work. We ought to be proud of such a tradition and support it.
There are some issues of liability that the parties directly involved should be clear on if a contractor is allowing his equipment to be used gratis, but other than that, I just don't see the issue.
There are some issues of liability that the parties directly involved should be clear on if a contractor is allowing his equipment to be used gratis, but other than that, I just don't see the issue.
"I just don't see the issue."
You will not understand the issue, unless your in a ligit business, paying all the required taxes, providing all the benifits to your employees, have all the proper insurances, and with the proper coverag for the size and type of your business.
The consumer is the one that may be damaged, is Mr Side Job qualified?, what will happen if Mr Side Job is injured on the job? or worse, a contact accident.
Will Mr Side Job, return if there is a problem? remember there is no one to regulate him.
Electrical Contracting, is not a hobby, of something you do on a casual basis.
You will not understand the issue, unless your in a ligit business, paying all the required taxes, providing all the benifits to your employees, have all the proper insurances, and with the proper coverag for the size and type of your business.
The consumer is the one that may be damaged, is Mr Side Job qualified?, what will happen if Mr Side Job is injured on the job? or worse, a contact accident.
Will Mr Side Job, return if there is a problem? remember there is no one to regulate him.
Electrical Contracting, is not a hobby, of something you do on a casual basis.
Dnkldorf
Senior Member
satcom said:
Les, I wish we had a state wide license. It would be cheaper for us over here in the "wild west".
It cost's me about 1K a year to stay licensed in the townships I work in.
And we have permits and inspections too, we just send them in on the telegraph machine, we work out of horse and buggies if you can believe that.
Although we have no state wide licensing yet, I don't see it as being a problem as you guys think. It works for us, and for you guys. That's why we see alot of you jersey guys over here doing work.
Greetings, been lurking for awhile, finally decided to post.
Being a scientific thinker, that is probably why I was drawn into this somewhat scientific field. An important rule in science is...FACTS. Without facts or data, this notion that moonlighters are killing the industry is just propaganda. So I ask anyone that claims that moonlighters are killing the industry to present the data, then I can come to a non biased conclusion.
Overkill
Being a scientific thinker, that is probably why I was drawn into this somewhat scientific field. An important rule in science is...FACTS. Without facts or data, this notion that moonlighters are killing the industry is just propaganda. So I ask anyone that claims that moonlighters are killing the industry to present the data, then I can come to a non biased conclusion.
Overkill
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
I am in a legit business. We have all the required permits, taxes, insurance and what not. And there are plenty of people who work out of their basements and on the side that undercut us. So what? We don't try to use the power of government to stop the competition.satcom said:
People make such a big deal out of insurance and service after the fact, but the reality of the situation is that for the most part insurance protects the contractor and not the customer. Service afterward is nice, but many people are unwilling to pay for it.
As for paying benefits, the whole idea of working on the side is you already have benefits. No need to pay them twice.
DNK,
Out in Central Pa, the commercial guys do nice work, very professional, but they have a rough time scheduling work, and with the added burden of travel times, not an easy business to operate, i give them a lot of credit, for staying at it.
Overkill,
You need facts and data, easy no problem, just risk everything you have, and dive into a full time contracting business, you will get all the facts you need!
"We don't try to use the power of government to stop the competition."
No one is trying to use the power of goverment to stop competition, what is so difficult to understand, that a Licensed Electrical Contractor, has to follow the laws, and Mr Side Job does not, He is not your competition, he is operating outside the law period.
Out in Central Pa, the commercial guys do nice work, very professional, but they have a rough time scheduling work, and with the added burden of travel times, not an easy business to operate, i give them a lot of credit, for staying at it.
Overkill,
You need facts and data, easy no problem, just risk everything you have, and dive into a full time contracting business, you will get all the facts you need!
"We don't try to use the power of government to stop the competition."
No one is trying to use the power of goverment to stop competition, what is so difficult to understand, that a Licensed Electrical Contractor, has to follow the laws, and Mr Side Job does not, He is not your competition, he is operating outside the law period.
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growler
Senior Member
- Location
- Atlanta,GA
petersonra said:
Bob, You have stated before that you work for an automation contractor. Are you now running the company? I haven't seen many controls contractors working out of the trucks of cars, please explain.
dnk,
i wouldn't give you the time of day if you asked, not because i don't know it, but because i don't like you.
for the record. 33, started at 20 (so 13, almost 14 yrs - shoot me) i'm fully licensed, bonded and insured.
But if anyone else is curious, I'll send you my resume.
But dnk, please, i avoid you like the plague, go get another hobby.
i wouldn't give you the time of day if you asked, not because i don't know it, but because i don't like you.
for the record. 33, started at 20 (so 13, almost 14 yrs - shoot me) i'm fully licensed, bonded and insured.
But if anyone else is curious, I'll send you my resume.
But dnk, please, i avoid you like the plague, go get another hobby.
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