Neutral Question

[mbrooke]

wrong

wrong

Explain.

by definition it does not

Define

V source = sum(Vloads)
the potential is across the source and loads, not the neut

And what is load hooked up to?

 

[mivey]

you have negative charge (excess electrons) or absence of electrons, holes or net positive protons
or no net charge, balanced or 'neutral', ie, protons=electrons natural state

A neutral point does not have to have balanced protons and electrons in it. Let X have balanced charges, Y have one excess positive charge and Z have two excess positive charges. Y is the neutral. X pulls on Y in one direction just as hard as Z pulls on Y in the other direction. The neutral point is where the pulls (charge imbalances) all cancel each other (equilibrium point).

 

[mbrooke]

15 kv triplex shielded cable 1000' feet long
laid on ground
in service, then disconnected, will it have a charge for a period of time?

If not at the right point in the sine wave certainly yes- due to capacitance.

 

[Ingenieur]

Think zero sequence current for a moment...

Yes- but the same thing is happening in two or three separate winding- just out of phase to on another.

In a perfect system with a zero Z noodle- come reality a neutral carrying load will always measure voltage to ground because it will always have impedance to some degree or another. Granted this concept is drifting away from the topic at hand- but you used it as an example to support zero charge which I disagree with.

has nothing to do with it

of course, that is kind of the whole point

does not matter if you agree
it is fact, the neut in theory has 0 potential
Vsource = Vload
no neut involved
the source produces work/emf, the load absorbs it

 

[mbrooke]

A neutral point does not have to have balanced protons and electrons in it. Let X have balanced charges, Y have one excess positive charge and Z have two excess positive charges. Y is the neutral. X pulls on Y in one direction just as hard as Z pulls on Y in the other direction. The neutral point is where the pulls (charge imbalances) all cancel each other (equilibrium point).

What I was trying to say- but you said it better then I ever could

And what can't cancel, goes back to the source it originated out of- correct?

 

[Ingenieur]

If not at the right point in the sine wave certainly yes- due to capacitance.

ALWAYS will
it's a dc charge

does the unconnected for weeks 14 awg on the floor have charge?

 

[mivey]

????
open ckt
touch h-g
touch n-g
is the a difference?
is g/earth considered 0 potential?

Electric charge is the physical property of matter that causes it to experience a forcewhen placed in an electromagnetic field. There are two types of electric charges: positive and negative (commonly carried by protons and electrons respectively). Like charges repel and unlike attract. An object with an absence of net charge is referred to as neutral.

Neutral in charge for the object, not that it sits at an equilibrium point in space.

 

[mbrooke]

has nothing to do with it

Then how do equal loads cancel current out in the neutral?

of course, that is kind of the whole point

Maybe we can agree here.

does not matter if you agree
it is fact, the neut in theory has 0 potential
Vsource = Vload
no neut involved
the source produces work/emf, the load absorbs it

Yes- for a perfectly balanced system as measured across the neutral. But as soon as I take a meter or wiggy L-N that ma leakage shows otherwise.

 

[mivey]

Always do- yes- the second one. Current can not flow without voltage.




Take a volt meter L-N- does it not read 120 volts?


N-G, Unless there is no load, there will be up to a few volts potential due to the voltage drop across the neutral.

But going back- if the neutral has no potential as you said, it could not read 120 volts, correct?

N-G is not germane to the neutral point discussion. Earth is a different topic.

 

[mbrooke]

ALWAYS will
it's a dc charge

Won't disconnecting it as a certain point in the sine wave result in zero volts between the conductor and concentric?

does the unconnected for weeks 14 awg on the floor have charge?

Depends if it was connected to anything.

 

[Ingenieur]

A neutral point does not have to have balanced protons and electrons in it. Let X have balanced charges, Y have one excess positive charge and Z have two excess positive charges. Y is the neutral. X pulls on Y in one direction just as hard as Z pulls on Y in the other direction. The neutral point is where the pulls (charge imbalances) all cancel each other (equilibrium point).

that is called the 'neutral'

I have no idea of what you are trying to illustrate
what are X, Y and Z?

it better net 0
because if the charge entering does not equal that leaving we have an issue
unless you are charging something

 

[mbrooke]

N-G is not germane to the neutral point discussion. Earth is a different topic.

I fully agree- but it was mentioned that the N will not measure voltage to earth. It will anytime the N is carrying current.

 

[Ingenieur]

Neutral in charge for the object, not that it sits at an equilibrium point in space.

the object is the network
and the reference is earth

 

[Ingenieur]

Explain.

Define

And what is load hooked up to?

think about it
what comprises 'charge'

I did, you cut it out

an emf source

 

[mivey]

What I was trying to say- but you said it better then I ever could

And what can't cancel, goes back to the source it originated out of- correct?

For the neutral point, what doesn't cancel moves the neutral point. In other words, the charge imbalance on the neutral point will be such that it is at the equilibrium point of all the forces acting on it.

 

[Ingenieur]

Then how do equal loads cancel current out in the neutral?

Maybe we can agree here.

Yes- for a perfectly balanced system as measured across the neutral. But as soon as I take a meter or wiggy L-N that ma leakage shows otherwise.

because the net charge/time is 0

we are discussing in theory how the name 'neutral' came about

 

[Ingenieur]

For the neutral point, what doesn't cancel moves the neutral point. In other words, the charge imbalance on the neutral point will be such that it is at the equilibrium point of all the forces acting on it.

and in a 3 phase system how many nano meters from the center of a wye connection? lol
and how much potential rise due to charge imbalance? nano volts?

 

[mbrooke]

think about it
what comprises 'charge'

Excess or deficit of electrons.

I did, you cut it out

an emf source

Ok good.

For the neutral point, what doesn't cancel moves the neutral point. In other words, the charge imbalance on the neutral point will be such that it is at the equilibrium point of all the forces acting on it.

I agree- but what can't balance will travel through the neutral conductor and then back to the winding it originated from.

 

[Ingenieur]

N-G is not germane to the neutral point discussion. Earth is a different topic.

we are discussing the root of the term neutral as it applies to basic ckt nomenclature
not physics or field theory
it is the point where net charge is 0 and potential is 0

 

[mivey]

that is called the 'neutral'

I have no idea of what you are trying to illustrate
what are X, Y and Z?

it better net 0
because if the charge entering does not equal that leaving we have an issue
unless you are charging something

Say X is Earth (or a grounded conductor). Increase the charge imbalance at Z twice as fast as at Y (or let the the Z to X voltage be twice the Y to X voltage). Where is the neutral point for conductors X, Y, and Z? It is at Y even though Y has a charge imbalance.