Non-EGC'd 5-R is a fire hazard ??

[user 100]

Extension ring... wiremold ext. namely is not that atrocious esthetically

....Or, you can also (depending on the circumstances) nipple out of old panel to new box/ afci/gfci receptacle underneath panel-run wire from old breaker to that, then refeed old branch circuit from new receptacle.

This works for device replacement also b/c of 406.4(D)(4)(2).

looks like NEC is dicated under a fire trade association. why is NEC not under FEMA, or IEEE, or a NEPA ???

the NEC is written under NFPA code # "NFPA70". there is no NFPA code # titled "NEC", the name assigned to NFPA70 code is "NEC"

the NFPA has hierachy; CODE#[name]

http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards

NFPA 70 IS the NEC.

The NFPA is not written by fire fighters-

Its simply an organization which, thru a consortium of individuals representing different trade groups (insurance companies, engineering associations, etc.) develops codes and standards for all kinds of stuff

Other examples of codes they produce...

NFPA 72- fire alarm code

NFPA 70b- code for electrical maintenance

NFPA 54- Natural gas fuel code...

And iirc they are responsible for something like 200 different codes accross different trades/industries etc.

 

[al hildenbrand]

am i speaking french to a spanish speaking community?

I submit you are insisting upon speaking "FionaZupppa" to an English speaking community. In spite of requests to the contrary from the community you insist upon eccentric syntax and personal acronyms.

i never once said you are not doing the right thing, was just highlighting REAL WORLD scenario, of which the NEC doesnt seem to get on some issues.

I never thought you were saying I'm doing it wrong. Simply, your claim that someone else will do it wrong, and cheaper, as a defense for your analysis of the NEC, is, TO ME, a source of income, because I am hired, and paid, to correct that cheaper non-Code wiring.

so what was the big push for 2014 NEC to impact replacing a 1-R with a 1-R in an older 2 wire home? previous revs allowed it. was there some form of rash issues that suddenly cropped up that had to be addressed in the 2014 rev?

I see the pushing of GFCI, AFCI, TR and WR onto the device replacement as a way for the remaining actuarials of property loss, injury and death to be further reduced. Whether the economic cost / benefit ratio makes sense is something else, and has been kicked about in various ways on this Forum.

 

[TexasMaster]

....Or, you can also nipple out of old panel to new box/ afci/gfci receptacle underneath panel-run wire from old breaker to that, then refeed old branch circuit from new receptacle.



:thumbsup: we have solutions, but I was afraid that Fiona would "what if" us into the panel being bricked in

 

[FionaZuppa]

I see the pushing of GFCI, AFCI, TR and WR onto the device replacement as a way for the remaining actuarials of property loss, injury and death to be further reduced. Whether the economic cost / benefit ratio makes sense is something else, and has been kicked about in various ways on this Forum.

is this a "imho" statement, a theoretical assumption, or some facts gathered and presented to CMP? i would be interested in seeing the latter, if you have it.

....Or, you can also (depending on the circumstances) nipple out of old panel to new box/ afci/gfci receptacle underneath panel-run wire from old breaker to that, then refeed old branch circuit from new receptacle.

This works for device replacement also b/c of 406.4(D)(4)(2).



NFPA 70 IS the NEC.

$1 fix vs $2k. your cust will tell you what??

and no, "NFPA 70" IS NOT NEC
NFPA 70 is the code # for a set of standards named "NEC"

 

[user 100]

....Or, you can also (depending on the circumstances) nipple out of old panel to new box/ afci/gfci receptacle underneath panel-run wire from old breaker to that, then refeed old branch circuit from new receptacle.

This works for device replacement also b/c of 406.4(D)(4)(2).

Forgot to add this:

Oh, and make sure to replace your broken device being fed by your new afci/gfci you installed underneath the panel.

And yes Fiona, in this instance, we can use a 1-15 2 wire receptacle as a replacement.

 

[Johnnybob]

Anybody else want popcorn? BYOB 'cause I'm still at work

 

[user 100]

is this a "imho" statement, a theoretical assumption, or some facts gathered and presented to CMP? i would be interested in seeing the latter, if you have it.

And "theoretically" you can go find the substantiation yourself.

$1 fix vs $2k. your cust will tell you what??

and no, "NFPA 70" IS NOT NEC
NFPA 70 is the code # for a set of standards named "NEC"

What leads you to believe that fix would run 2gs ?

Hey, if the customer doesn't want to pay for that repair, do the work themselves and violate code, then that is their perogative.
Their decision to do that doesn't change the fact the people they would have hired to do that job would have to follow code...

There are multitudes of threads here about the very same concerns about the NEC/AFCI mandate and the consequences surrounding them that you bring up- feel free to look them up.

 

[FionaZuppa]

What leads you to believe that fix would run 2gs ?

Hey, if the customer doesn't want to pay for that repair, do the work themselves and violate code, then that is their perogative.
Their decision to do that doesn't change the fact the people they would have hired to do that job would have to follow code...

There are multitudes of threads here about the very same concerns about the NEC/AFCI mandate and the consequences surrounding them that you bring up- feel free to look them up.

biz expenses + hardware + permit fees, you see it much less than $1500 ?? in a biz can you even afford to be onsite for less than $1500/day ?
wow, the part in red bold, you are finally seeing it. so from your view if the NEC mandates such and cust cannot afford it, better to just let cust do whatever the hell they want, vs just replacing the broken $1 1-R. hmmmm, sure, makes good logical sense. hmy:

have great weekend, see ya.

 

[peter d]

I still don't know what a 1-R is. Oh, and I rarely if ever install AFCI protection when replacing outlets.

 

[user 100]

biz expenses + hardware + permit fees, you see it much less than $1500 ?? in a biz can you even afford to be onsite for less than $1500/day ?
wow, the part in red bold, you are finally seeing it. so from your view if the NEC mandates such and cust cannot afford it, better to just let cust do whatever the hell they want, vs just replacing the broken $1 1-R. hmmmm, sure, makes good logical sense. hmy:

have great weekend, see ya.

It has been explained to you that we who are under the NEC have to follow it, and you are also aware that people don't work for nothing.( FYI: that repair doesn't bill anywhere close to what you believe it does, but whatever:roll

You are trolling is what you are doing and I see zero reason for this thread to continue.

 

[peter d]

I submit you are insisting upon speaking "FionaZupppa" to an English speaking community. In spite of requests to the contrary from the community you insist upon eccentric syntax and personal acronyms.


I never thought you were saying I'm doing it wrong. Simply, your claim that someone else will do it wrong, and cheaper, as a defense for your analysis of the NEC, is, TO ME, a source of income, because I am hired, and paid, to correct that cheaper non-Code wiring.


I see the pushing of GFCI, AFCI, TR and WR onto the device replacement as a way for the remaining actuarials of property loss, injury and death to be further reduced. Whether the economic cost / benefit ratio makes sense is something else, and has been kicked about in various ways on this Forum.

This is what an engineer turned electrician sounds like.

 

[roger]

have great weekend, see ya.

And with that we will close this thread since the OP has her mind made up.

Roger