Outlets Per Breaker

[allenwayne]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Originally posted by infinity:

BigJohn67, Infinity:
210.21.(B)(1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit. This means a single receptacle, NOT A DUPLEX recept.

That's exactly what I said. A post said a 20 amp circuit with one device. IMO one device means that it's on one yoke. A duplex is one device. If that device were a duplex receptacle than it could be a 15 amp duplex.

A 15 amp duplex can be used when there is a 15 amp circuit,IMO the reason for this article was to stop 15 amp receptacles to be used on a 20 amp dedicated circuit like lets say a fridge.In that case a single 20 or a 20 amp rated duplex is required..All to common in residental trim outs.15 amp duplexes throughout the home.Fridge might have been dedicated depends on rough crew,trim crew installs a duplex and on final AHJ reads panel legend (fridge) and sees a 15 a duplex Haven`t let him down yet.Oh and by the way he does go back and spot check me,hate to think of what might be if I didn`t hold up to my end

 

[infinity]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Allenwayne,

I would disagree that a 15 amp duplex receptacle cannot be installed on a 20 amp dedicated branch circuit. Look at 210.21(3)

[ May 06, 2005, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: infinity ]

 

[jwelectric]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Originally posted by infinity:
Allenwayne,

I would disagree that a 15 amp duplex receptacle cannot be installed on a 20 amp dedicated branch circuit. Look at 210.21(3)

Duplex means two. A duplex receptacle is two receptacles on one yoke. We are allowed to put two or more 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit.
210.21 (B) (3) Receptacle Ratings. Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, receptacle ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21(B)(3)

 

[physis]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

By a very bright individual

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
210.21.(B)(1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receceptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[john m. caloggero]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

I think it's important to realize that where a single receptacle is installed on a branch circuit, (only one place to insert a male plug) must have a rating not less than the branch circuit rating.

 

[amptech]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

"Fridge might have been dedicated depends on rough crew,trim crew installs a duplex and on final AHJ reads panel legend (fridge) and sees a 15 a duplex"
Allen, What is the problem with this installation? It is not prohibited by the NEC.

 

[bigjohn67]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

I stated "device" because if my memory serves me correct- they make 20amp "duplex" recepticals.

bottom line is that the code refers to "yoke".
and if you a circuit is overcurrent protected at 20 amps and one device is used it must be rated as such. Same goes with 15 amp, 30, 50.......
You have to remember there is no Yoke device out there that is rated above 50 amps. 60 and above is usually hard wired.

But I have agree with everyone. I've been in the business for 20+ yrs, been to college, training, etc and learn alot from this forum.

 

[LarryFine]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

From 2002 NEC, Art. 100:
Receptacle. A receptacle is a contact device installed at the outlet for the connection of an attachment plug. A single receptacle is a single contact device with no other contact device on the same yoke. A multiple receptacle is two or more contact devices on the same yoke.

Clearly, a duplex receptacle is a single device, but is not a single receptacle. Duplex for 'fridge is okay.

So there!

 

[LarryFine]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

To continue, an example of a single receptacle is a window-AC receptacle. This is where a 20-amp (T-slot) receptacle (and #12 cu) must be used on a 20-amp OCD.

Like a breaker panel that rejects the quantity of tandem breakers that would allow it to exceed NEC limit, receptacles are rated for the plugs they will reject.

That's why 20-amp, 125- and 250-volt receptacles will accept 15- or 20-amp plugs, but 15-amp receptacles will only accept 15-amp plugs, and reject 20's.

The equipment manufacturer knows when a certain-sized circuit is necessary. There's no danger beyond nuisance tripping if you overload a (properly-wired) circuit, but the equipment has to function.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

never mind

[ May 07, 2005, 12:36 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[physis]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

A duplex is not a single receptacle.

A duplex is two receptacles.

If there are two receptacles (a duplex) on a branch circuit, then 210.21.(B)(1) would not apply.




________________________________________________________________________________________

While I was looking at this it occurred to me that I can put 16 amps on a 15 amp receptacle. I'm thinking that it must say I can't somewhere, but I can't find it.

Can I put 16 amps on a 15 amp receptacle?

 

[infinity]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

If something had a load of 16 amps why wouldn't it have a 20 amp attachment plug?

 

[iwire]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Originally posted by infinity:
If something had a load of 16 amps why wouldn't it have a 20 amp attachment plug?

That is a good question and one that I have yet to see answered yet.

 

[physis]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Table 210.21(B)(3) says you can put a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit.

210.23(A)(1) says you can plug in a utilation equipment that used 80% of the branch circuit rating.

That's 16 amps on a 15 amp receptacle.

Edit: Never mind, it's in 210.21(B)(2).

[ May 07, 2005, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Originally posted by allenwayne:
stop 15 amp receptacles to be used on a 20 amp dedicated circuit like lets say a fridge.In that case a single 20 or a 20 amp rated duplex is required..All to common in residental trim outs.15 amp duplexes throughout the home.Fridge might have been dedicated depends on rough crew,trim crew installs a duplex and on final AHJ reads panel legend (fridge) and sees a 15 a duplex :roll:
I have a really good AHJ that will call me when this is the situation and will sign it off knowing I will take care of it.

There is nothing wrong with a 15 amp duplex on a dedicated 20 amp circuit be it for a fridge, disposal, dishwasher, whatever.

 

[infinity]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Post by Physis:

Table 210.21(B)(3) says you can put a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit.
210.23(A)(1) says you can plug in a utilation equipment that used 80% of the branch circuit rating.

That's 16 amps on a 15 amp receptacle.

The 15 amp recptacle on a 20 amp circuit is required to be at least one duplex. Technically a duplex is two receptacles so you could not put 16 amps on one receptacle since it would have a 20 amp attachment plug.

[ May 07, 2005, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: infinity ]

 

[hurk27]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

By Sam: Table 210.21(B)(3) says you can put a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit.

This is the same mistake that I was going to post earlyer.
It does not say you can put a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp circuit. It says "Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles" you can use 15 amp receptacles.
Each receptacle on a duplex is tested by UL to the full load of 15 amps, but table 210.21(B)(2) limits the 15 amp receptacle load to 12 amps.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Have been going over and over the articles that apply to this senario,up until now i have just been changing the duplex for a single recep and get passed.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Have been going over and over the articles that apply to this senario,up until now i have just been changing the duplex for a single recep and get passed.

210 20 B 1 does say a single installed on a dedicated circuit shall be rated at 20 amps.210 20 B 3 allows us to use duplex rated at 15 on a 20 amp circuit,but nowhere does it say it is permissible to install a duplex on a dedicated circuit.If it is an individual circuit then using a duplex would change the listing.Individual is one, a duplex would allow 2 points of utilization. 210 20 B 3 does say 2 or more outlets shall conform to table 210 21 B 3 and a 15 amp duplex is allowed but only when there are 2 or more OUTLETS.
A dedicated/individual outlet is just that one single point of utilization installing a duplex changes that and there would have to be a second outlet/yoke to allow a 15 amp duplex.
Maybe the wording should be addressed in the next code cycle but I can`t find anything that allows a individual circuit to have a duplex installed.There is really nothing that says you can`t but as gray as this is written I opt to change the duplex get my final and go on.
Especially when one of our crews forgets a standard issue and he just calls me tells me what he wants and signs it off knowing I will take care of it,I will not argue something that has comprised 6 pages here and still has not been answered Maybe instead of Florida I should be in missouri SHOW ME

 

[physis]

Re: Outlets Per Breaker

Sorry,

I meant Table 210.21(B)(3) says you can put two or more 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit.

I already found in Table 210.21(B)(2) that you can't put 16 amps on a 15 amp receptacle.

I couldn't find it before.