Piece Rates

[mdshunk]

But if you are using romex and doing a 2000 sq ft house for 10K, you are ripping people off.

There's no such thing as ripping people off, unless you rob them at gunpoint.

If I got those prices, we would make almost 100% profit. Material included.

I fail to see the dilemma. What's wrong with making a profit, even a big one?

 

[iwire]

There's no such thing as ripping people off, unless you rob them at gunpoint.

I agree.

 

[iwire]

After all of this I have learned 2 things. The first is all of you people wouldn't survive a day in the California business (Which is good for me) and I wasted my time posting and trying to explain myself. The second is I can do business all over America because I know my business is profitable

If your so darn great why did you even need to ask a question? :-?

 

[peter d]

But if you are using romex and doing a 2000 sq ft house for 10K, you are ripping people off.

As you're in Southern California, these 2000-3000 sq ft homes that you wire, how much do they go for? I'm guessing the average price is over a $half million. Do you think the builders and developers who sell these houses are ripping off the home buyers?

And as you're well aware, the builders are quite adept at hammering the sub contractors price into the ground.

 

[emahler]

There is a difference between electrical contracting and wiring tract houses. And yes, I wouldn't survive a day wiring tract houses, in California, or any other part of the country.

I fail to see the logic of working for 2-3% net profit.

 

[growler]

The second is I can do business all over America because I know my business is profitable at what i have gotten bids for in the past.

Lots of luck to you but I believe your day in the sun is over. The houseing boom is not comming back ( not in the foreseeable future). Piece work requires a very high volume and that's why we are seeing many of the big piece work companies going out of business. Once the volume is gone so are the profits.

In the late 19th century the big cattle ranches that depended on free range grazing had to change their strategy once fences started to go up. They started to concentrate on quality more and less on volume.

Get rid of your long horns and get some quality beef on the payroll.

 

[ItsHot]

"dragging down"

"dragging down"

That's got to be what it is. $700 for wiring a 2000 square foot home would be ridiculous.

Talk about "dragging down" the trade! $700 is what a painter can get for doing a couple of bedrooms!:grin:

 

[mdshunk]

Talk about "dragging down" the trade! $700 is what a painter can get for doing a couple of bedrooms!:grin:

Or an east cost electrician for hanging 3 paddle fans.

 

[crossman]

After all of this I have learned 2 things. The first is all of you people wouldn't survive a day in the California business (Which is good for me)

Well, first, from your original post, it sounds to me that the existing SoCal contractors are already kicking your butt, so you are right, you certainly don't need any of us coming over there and adding to your grief.

Man.

From your rhetoric, it seemed to me that you were on the verge of going out of business because every other SoCal contractor was cutting your bids. Sounded to me as if you were at wits end trying to figure out how to get some jobs, and you weren't sure how to do it. But you also claim to be such an astute businessman and way above anyone at this forum. Doesn't add up.

The second is I can do business all over America because I know my business is profitable at what i have gotten bids for in the past.

If this is so, then why were you cryng about how tough it is, and that you needed to cut your bids?

I'm sorry that this thread has resulted in confrontation. But I am going to tell you, when you go somewhere new and ask a question, and then you get all uppity and holier-than-thou and snide because you aren't getting the answers you want, nothing but grief will come. My apologies...

And welcome to the forum!

 

[iwire]

I'm sorry that this thread has resulted in confrontation. But I am going to tell you, when you go somewhere new and ask a question, and then you get all uppity and holier-than-thou and snide because you aren't getting the answers you want, nothing but grief will come. My apologies...

And welcome to the forum!

How well put.

 

[active1]

Let me be the 1st to say welcome to the forum.

Thakyou for sharing your successfull busness model.
We do pipe here so I'm tring to relate.

I'm thinking if I apply the same plan here I could pay my guys $0.30 per foot of installed conduit to pipe and $0.12 per sq foot to pull and trim. And if I don't win any jobs then I'm paying my workers too much. I'll have to backcharge for every inch of scrap pipe. A simple underground service that 90's into a panel might only pay them $0.60 to install but that is all the market will bear.

 

[frizbeedog]

Although if it keeps going the way it is, they won't be working at all.

Here's an employee with a response for you, like it or not.

I would not work for you. Period. Your attitude towards them seems to suck. Just how much do you value your employees and the skills they provide?

I know just enough about the buisiness side of things to know that my success directly relates to the company's success. Win, win. Go team. And if the market dries up for a particular sector and if my employer is not going to adapt and go after the market that is making money both for him and me, then, good luck. I'm an electrician and can adapt and work anywhere. I certainly would not wait for you to sit around and hope the market turns.

So resi is your whole world?

As you said, the real world doesn't work that way. Go ahead and make more comments about employess having no bearing on business knowlege or understaning the relationship between owners and employees and what it means to overall success. And don't think that any of the employees that respond here have nothing positive to offer in relation to this subject, because on this forum I've seen evidence to the contrary.

Many of those same employess you see here, run their own jobs, do estimating, billing, change orders, RFI's, material ordering, planning, and bring in projects on time and on budget. Without some knowlege of the business that would not be possible.

I went for coffee and a bagel this morning and dropped two business cards. Two potential new customers. What are your employees doing?

 

[LLSolutions]

Last rant then I'm done with this thread, I hope. I'm willing to bet over 90% of companies in the construction fields are run by people who used to be employees in the construction field. I'm proud to say I'm one of them. Most of us understood many aspects of the electrical business before we stepped out on our own. Don't under estimate your employees. What seems to hold true is that good employees Sail while lesser ones tread water. What I mean is that if money stops flowing to employees, the good ones will move on, open shop, find a new employer, you said you're losing jobs not that they don't exist,and you'll be left with the ones that couldn't cut it anywhere else. I know which of my guys do side work and contract jobs on the side, they're also usually my best and highest payed. I keep my friends close and my future competitors happy enough not to leave just yet P.S. I charge 20k to bare code wire a house in NM with plastic boxes in NY.

 

[emahler]

Frisbee. You may be an electrician, his guys are installers. They don't know how to do electrical work, they know how to drill holes, or how to set boxes, or how to pull branch circuits.

But most of them probably don't know why they are doing it, or how to determine what to do.

In short, they were way overpaid in the good times. And they aren't able to go work for your company as anything other than an apprentice, because they don't have the skill set.

So, if they have been makin 6 figures roping romex, but they would have to go back to 1st year apprentice wages anyplace else.

Tract housing is not for those with a concience.

 

[quogueelectric]

After all of this I have learned 2 things. The first is all of you people wouldn't survive a day in the California business (Which is good for me) and I wasted my time posting and trying to explain myself. The second is I can do business all over America because I know my business is profitable at what i have gotten bids for in the past. I do know that moving across the country codes change drastically. I could see if you had to bend pipe all through a wood framed house it could get ridiculously expensive. But if you are using romex and doing a 2000 sq ft house for 10K, you are ripping people off. If I got those prices, we would make almost 100% profit. Material included.

5 bucks a sq ft is about right by me and I am not ripping anyone off. It costs a lot more to do buisness in yankee territory. Heck I usually get about 8k to do a modular with the extras.

 

[ike5547]

So, if they have been makin 6 figures roping romex...

Not likely.

 

[ike5547]

It costs a lot more to do buisness in yankee territory.

I don't think he is accurately representing the market in SoCal. He may be working in some back water down there. Mohave Desert? Palmdale? Tehachipi?

 

[emahler]

Not likely.

So na?ve. Very likely in good times. Not in a 40 hour week, but very possible.

 

[peter d]

I know some (many?) of you are bored with seeing these pictures by now, so I apologize in advance (and pictures are a touchy subject lately.) However, they are very relevant to the thread. This is typical tract home work in San Diego County, CA. This is the level of workmanship you will see done by romex racing pieceworkers and hourly installers.

 

[ceb58]

After all of this I have learned 2 things. The first is all of you people wouldn't survive a day in the California business (Which is good for me) and I wasted my time posting and trying to explain myself. The second is I can do business all over America because I know my business is profitable at what i have gotten bids for in the past. I do know that moving across the country codes change drastically. I could see if you had to bend pipe all through a wood framed house it could get ridiculously expensive. But if you are using romex and doing a 2000 sq ft house for 10K, you are ripping people off. If I got those prices, we would make almost 100% profit. Material included.

Dude, I have learned 2 things from you also. #1 YOU ARE AS FULL OF IT AS A CHRISTMAS TURKEY. You start by talking about paying by the sq ft, then you say sq ft has nothing to do with it, then you talk about $2.00 sq ft. Make up your mind.
#2 YOU ARE AS FULL OF IT AS A CHRISTMAS TURKEY. If you can make it all over America then why dont we see SoCal Electrical trucks all over the road? Come to the East coast where real people live and work for your self charging your rate. You will be living in a 2 room refrigerator box by the end of the week. And if you want it wired it will cost $4.00 to $5.00 a sqft.