Piece Rates

[iwire]

I know some (many?) of you are bored with seeing these pictures by now, so I apologize in advance (and pictures are a touchy subject lately.) However, they are very relevant to the thread.

No problem Pete, your friends with a moderator so you get to post as you want. :grin:















It's a joke folks, but it is a good time to say that as far as I know no one has any issues with pictures that are directly relevant to an ongoing thread.

 

[ike5547]

So na?ve. Very likely in good times. Not in a 40 hour week, but very possible.

I didn't say impossible. I haven't met nor heard of any oakey ropers making 6 figures so I stand by 'not likely'. We are talking about employees right?

 

[CopperTone]

Wht have I learned today?

Don't work in southern california.
I'm staying put in massachusetts and going to continually max out my retirement by overcharging people - oh - and sleep well at night too.

the extra money should come in handy for my summer cottage down the cape.

 

[brian john]

This thread is long and I have just gotten back from vacation so I only read the first 4 pages so if this was posted already sorry. I was intrigued because years ago I was an hourly worker at a company that also paid piece work.

As you can tell from the responses piece work is generally looked down on by some in the industry (me included and I did piece work). But you really only have two options as I see it. You need the work to stay in business, bring in your best most reliable people and tell everyone the truth. Tell them the bottom line and BE HONEST. Tell it is time to swim or sink and what the options are. Tell them you are taking a cut, you've cut this and that, dropped the season tickets etc and here is what "WE" need to do to stay afloat. If you work with me when things improve I'll take care of you. AND STICK BY YOUR WORD

Or you can shut the doors.

One thing I have learned in this business is everyone operates differently there is not one perfect model IMO everyone can follow.

I mean how many business owners are in their office while technically still on vacation waiting for a call that a 2500 amp CB just arrived at the airport and is clearing baggage to be picked up, tested and installed?

 

[mdshunk]

I mean how many business owners are in their office while technically still on vacation waiting for a call that a 2500 amp CB just arrived at the airport and is clearing baggage to be picked up, tested and installed?

Tonight, probably just one. I think his name is Brian.

 

[jmsbrush]

Man that was a mess, the only one that looked good was the switch box but it was missing a nail plate. We have to put one on if one of the wires goes onto the first holes of the box closest to the 2x4

 

[quogueelectric]

No problem Pete, your friends with a moderator so you get to post as you want. :grin:















It's a joke folks, but it is a good time to say that as far as I know no one has any issues with pictures that are directly relevant to an ongoing thread.

You have really been coming out of your shell lately. Glad to see it.

 

[peter d]

No problem Pete, your friends with a moderator so you get to post as you want. :grin:

Those brownie points have finally paid off.

 

[C3PO]

After all of this I have learned 2 things. The first is all of you people wouldn't survive a day in the California business (Which is good for me) and I wasted my time posting and trying to explain myself. The second is I can do business all over America because I know my business is profitable at what i have gotten bids for in the past. I do know that moving across the country codes change drastically. I could see if you had to bend pipe all through a wood framed house it could get ridiculously expensive. But if you are using romex and doing a 2000 sq ft house for 10K, you are ripping people off. If I got those prices, we would make almost 100% profit. Material included.

After reading your post I am not sure if I have learned anything. If you are such a big bad smart business man than why have you not made a profit in 8 months? And if you can do business all over America then why aren't you working in a state/area where the market is stronger? I think you are full of ******

 

[peter d]

Wht have I learned today?

Don't work in southern california.

Let's take that in perspective...California, by itself, has one of the largest economies in the entire world. CA still has a massive commercial, industrial, and custom residential market for electrical work.

I would say "Forget about the residential tract market in California." (or any other state)

 

[George Stolz]

Guys, drop the comments about what other members are full of, or this thread will be closed. Find another (less personal and vulgar) method of voicing your disagreement.

 

[petersonra]

NC was having a problem with the quality of work with piece workers.

The State Board sent a newsletter that said every body's employees had to be a "Bonafied Employee" an employee that has w-4 and w-2 taxes taken out. Not 10-99.

Piece work is not the same thing as subcontractor. Many bonafide employees are paid on a piece work basis. Its a very good way to reward the better workers.

 

[petersonra]

In the late 19th century the big cattle ranches that depended on free range grazing had to change their strategy once fences started to go up. They started to concentrate on quality more and less on volume.

While it is a nice analogy, its just plain not so. There was no gradual change to higher quality beef as the fences came up. What happened was they were forced to go to the feedlot system simply because there was no other option. It turned out to produce a higher quality of beef at a lower price.

I feel for the OP, getting hammered by the economy on the one hand, and people who ought to be more sympathetic on the other.

You cannot anymore fight the market than you can fight gravity. The new home construction market has dropped off, in some areas by a lot. That leaves a lot of people who were making a living off that market in a huge bind. In most cases, your choices are to exit the market or lower your prices to chase the dwindling business. Keep in mind that when the market picks back up, there is no guarantee that you can just pick up where you left off if you decide to drop out of the market.

 

[petersonra]

I know some (many?) of you are bored with seeing these pictures by now, so I apologize in advance (and pictures are a touchy subject lately.) However, they are very relevant to the thread. This is typical tract home work in San Diego County, CA. This is the level of workmanship you will see done by romex racing pieceworkers and hourly installers.

Looks ok to me, although I did not look real close.

 

[iwire]

Its a very good way to reward the better workers.

Without a doubt it can be.

Just as without a doubt it can be one step above slavery.

It all depends on how it is implemented.

 

[petersonra]

Talk about "dragging down" the trade! $700 is what a painter can get for doing a couple of bedrooms!:grin:

I remember when the painters union was dead set against rollers, and later against sprayers. They even had a newspaper ad that claimed that paint applied by a roller was somehow inferior to brush applied paint.

IIRC, early episodes of this old house featured painters who used brushes over rollers. later on they switched mostly to rollers. Now most spray the prime coat and then spray on the finish coat and than roll over the sprayed on finish coat.

I can also remember when drywall started coming out and the screaming about it that came from the plasterers.

Things change. It would surprise me very little if tract builders started using less and less stick building and more and more assembly in factories. Roof trusses have already gone that way. When is the last time you saw a site built roof truss?

All it would take is a smart builder who figured out how much money he could save if he used standard dimensions for all his walls.

 

[growler]

All it would take is a smart builder who figured out how much money he could save if he used standard dimensions for all his walls.

Bob it's called a tract house and you are about 60 years to late.

Ever see a modular home go up.

Many people don't want to live in a mobile home without wheels.

 

[peter d]

Looks ok to me, although I did not look real close.

Then you missed the violations. :roll:

 

[brian john]

SoCAl:



Not sure if you are still following the thread but some legit responses and questions were asked and yes maybe a bit of mud was flung. New posters sometimes catch this I did a bit when I first hit MH. Any way if you could respond to the following PLEASE.

some of this is redundant.

2200 sq ft home
your bid=
your cost=
rough in per sq ft=
trim per sq ft=
material=

Are the services and large appliances included in the trim price?

When I did piece work it was so much a device and there was a rough in and trim price.
outlet-
panel-
T-stat-
light fixture-
appliance-

As to your basic question are you paying too much above my previous post regarding talking to all your men.

Only you can decide that I am not in a position where I can cut my electricians wages. But it would kill be to do so. I have taken cuts before, done without. But in the end only you can decide this,

 

[stevenj76]

Piece rates

Piece rates

I don't understand why the trim rate is so much lower per sqft.


These must be some homes with really large rooms where trim happens lightning fast per sqft.

Has anyone thought of trim based on Linear feet of Wall (one side, exteriors don't count.)

Your hourly rate converted from the piece rate for rough-in is slightly above the market average here, but with no contribution towards a health package.

The hourly conversion from the trim piece rate would require alot of green help.

Your rates might work here, but in SoCal where the cost of living is much more astronomical, I don't know how you or they do it. Your help must literally be starving for work.