POCO finally believed me

Status
Not open for further replies.

mivey

Senior Member
Will see what i get for readings after i get this balanced out. Will monitor both lines voltage next Saturday. I do enjoy fireworks but prefer not to lose lights over 1 big kaboom.
Will take time to get everything logged as to what breaker and exact amps.
Simply no time during parties to be watching amps as i am to busy watching the girls at the pole. At this point i believe i just had far too much on one 1 leg. Will keep you posted.
For interests sake, write down the configuration before hand so we can tell what the amps were before you got it balanced.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I usually am one of the DJ's and trust me DJ's don't work for the money.
Problem is takeing readings on a system that loads keep changing is pointless.
Will simply try to first balance the loads on the constant items like lights, sound equipment, frig's, and freezer. Then try to balance out the 120 loads like the smaller AC units. Hardest part is the Mr Coffee , popcorn maker, crockpots. I do believe i can keep the loads to below 100 amps each line.
Are there any cheap ways to remotely monitor the amps by way of CT's ? Would need be wireless.
 

SAC

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I usually am one of the DJ's and trust me DJ's don't work for the money.
Problem is takeing readings on a system that loads keep changing is pointless.
Will simply try to first balance the loads on the constant items like lights, sound equipment, frig's, and freezer. Then try to balance out the 120 loads like the smaller AC units. Hardest part is the Mr Coffee , popcorn maker, crockpots. I do believe i can keep the loads to below 100 amps each line.
Are there any cheap ways to remotely monitor the amps by way of CT's ? Would need be wireless.
http://www.theenergydetective.com/store/ted-5000

You'd probably need at least one additional CT to get per-phase information, as the base config sums the two phases. With an additional CT for one phase, you can calculate both phases.
 

SAC

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Does look sweet.
Am i correct in that is wireless ?
It is wireless in that there is a hand held wireless gizmo that is available, but since my wireless internet router is in my basement I just plug it into that (it has ethernet) and get it on my laptop - saves a few bucks to not need the wireless gizmo.
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
It is wireless in that there is a hand held wireless gizmo that is available, but since my wireless internet router is in my basement I just plug it into that (it has ethernet) and get it on my laptop - saves a few bucks to not need the wireless gizmo.
I could run a line from my router to it. So what would it tell me just the total watts or amps per leg ?
Would love to be viewed from more than 1 computer.
 

hurk27

Senior Member
My 20 kwh is an average per hour over about 7 hours. Very sure i hit some peaks. Rest of week my demands are very low. All we can hope for is that the other 7 dwellings are not having parties like mine. Not much more i can do beyond warning them. Guess they prefer to get 911 calls at 1 AM to come fix things. Even after there own man told them we need 1/0 they ignored it and replace it with same #2 triplex. Was plenty of evidence that we over heated and are melting the drop. Load can not get much lower for this 6 hours and really is not all that high for a 200 amp service.
Load actually gets lower in winter time as we do not need heat as we have plenty of body heat.
Ok I'm corn-fused 20kw is 83.3 amps, so how is this over loading a 1/0 cable? that would barely cause the conductor temperature to rise.:confused:
 

SAC

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
I could run a line from my router to it. So what would it tell me just the total watts or amps per leg ?
Would love to be viewed from more than 1 computer.
By default it comes with a pair of CTs to monitor both phases, and shows voltage and KWH as the sum of both phases (I'd guess that voltage is half the phase-phase voltage). It also displays the power factor. It will do graphing and keeps track of history at various intervals. In addition, you can get up to three more MTU/CT sets for monitoring individual circuits. If you put an additional set on a phase, then you can get total (from the default MTU) and per-phase info (from the additional MTU as if the single phase were an individual circuit).

Here is the FAQ for it:

http://www.theenergydetective.com/ted-5000/frequently-asked-questions

You can view it from any number of computers in your home. It is also possible to set it up so that you can view it from the internet, or enable for "google power meter".

http://www.google.com/powermeter/about/
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
Ok I'm corn-fused 20kw is 83.3 amps, so how is this over loading a 1/0 cable? that would barely cause the conductor temperature to rise.:confused:
The 20 KWH is an average over about 6 hours. Most of that is from several AC units 4 of witch are 240 volt units and 9 that are 120 volt. and a hot tub. So there will be some peaks.
The last 100 feet of my drop is only #2 triplex.
With #2 my argument with poco is i could never use all of my 200 amp service without a serious overload on the #2 they own.
I do understand why they down size there drops. The fight with them is far from over. They judge customers needs based on typical use. That is where they are making a mistake. I should not even be having this problem after they seen twice evidence that i am melting the #2 part of the drop. POCO guy arrives with only #2 triplex on his truck even after talking to engineering. 200 amp main is not triping. I did have an unbalanced load that i am working on getting balanced but still they should been able to handle it. I do not care about the $20 i burn on a Saturday, that is just drop in the bucket of total cost of our parties and is paid by members. Will be monitoring voltage on both lines at the DJ booth and in itself would be telling me to back off on load if voltage gets low.
Meter readings are logged from about 7 PM till 2 AM but just so i properly apply usage to my records. Typically i use about $20 in that 7 hours. Rest of week is about $8 per day . Our rate is about 14 cents per kwh.
The CT setup would be nice and will look into them.
 

mivey

Senior Member
With #2 my argument with poco is i could never use all of my 200 amp service without a serious overload on the #2 they own.
How long would you be at 200 amps? The #2 can handle at least 170 amps of normal current.

Consider the voltage drop: Suppose they get you 240 volts, then you are good for 40.8 kVA. But if you only get the meager 220 volts, you are down to 37.4 kVA. I think the data you gather will certainly be revealing.
 

mxslick

Senior Member
Location
SE Idaho
I'm gonna sound like a broken record here but since none of y'all seem to be listening: :grin:

The damage Jim talks of and has shown in his pics DOES NOT fit the overloaded drop scenario! The fact that it is at pretty much regular one-foot intervals, coupled with the damage I highlighted in earlier post #38, screams defective/damaged insulation resulting in corrosion and hot spot failures.

If the drop was damaged from overload the ENTIRE length of insulation would have been melted/bubbled. I have seen this firsthand.

Another thing that doesn't fit with the overload theory: Unless the party lighting is full-on and static (very unlikely), every single A/C unit he has is running, every popcorn popper and crock pot was heating full tilt (only at startup of the party at worst), and his sound system was feeding a sustained signal of low frequency (the most power-hungry of audio spectra), the steady-state draw would not be sustained long enough to melt the drop, not without tripping the main.

I'm wiling to bet that Jim is about to go through a lot of unnecessary work and expense. :roll:
 

Jim W in Tampa

Senior Member
Location
Tampa Florida
I am not spending anything yet. Will be watching the balance of loads close. Hopefully it simply was defective wire. Note that only 1 leg had damage. I do think at best i hit a few peaks but still under 150 amps and even in Fl heat of 100 and no wind it should it should take the load. Time will tell.
Will monitor line volts Sat night because both legs are available at DJ booth.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top