Profound business question

[Electrical Inspector]

Over "Give em what they pay for" If they want quick and dirty not meaning sloppy I can cut some corners and give them that. If they want a gold plated job you had better be willing to pay for it. When I was working in a mansion I was told to wire the panels as if they were going to put a GLASS COVER on the panel. After the first panel I brought all of the wires down and kept odd numbers on left number entering right to left as not to cross any in the panel. Mirror immage for even numbers. It became such a spectacle that I got to install the rest of the glass cover panels and people were asking me if I could do it at thier house too. They brought all thier neighbors over . Quality sells a job but if they want competitive pricing this is what you get competetive work not gold plate.

I'm a little confused, this post seems to contradict itself. You say "as if they were going to have glass covers" and then you say "you got to do the rest of the glass cover panels" and the neighbors were so impressed they wanted glass panels in their houses too.

Aside from how unlikely it is that a customer would care about how pretty the interior of a panel is, much less make it the artistic centerpice of their home, where do you buy glass panel covers?

 

[Ed Carr]

Marc,there are a million ways for a job to go a little awry and one way for perfection.I'd say the odds are definitely against us.Could being too petty or picky work against you,probably.My guess is you've been doing it right for so long you're not going to change.I would also bet you can be fast and do quality work because you have developed over time the skills and know how.Finally I'm sure you're "good enough" is in fact way more than that! Ed

 

[SmithBuilt]

To answer your original question. Yes I believe it does affect the bottom line.

Where I'm located I believe the lowest price wins almost every time. You could argue that the contractor that wins will not get called back for the next job. That's one reason quality should get us repeat customers and word of mouth customers (some of the best kind). When I refer to quality I'm not just talking about exceeding code I'm talking about clean respectful workmen and job sites. Things that the customer see and understand.

A good salesman can also sell a job that is better than average quality. Not me, but a good salesman. Something I'm sure we all could work on.

However on new commercial construction my experience is the lowest price wins no matter what. Providing the EC can get the job done.

 

[tonyou812]

I believe that one has to adjust their quality standards for every single job, based on the cost of the job and the time constraints, all while staying code compliant.

You cannot possibly apply the same level of quality and workmanship to every single job. Some do, but the financial results are disastrous.

I totally agree with that. You are the first person to really make any sense. I see alot of guys totally blow the profit curve over an 1/8th of an inch varience. Now that im a small buisness owner I would totally repremand anyone that turns a simple pipe run into an Art project.
But I would have a big problem if a job was done just poorly. But i wouldnt let it get that far. Thats in my opinion what happens when you get to big.As long as no one is sueing you its buisness as usual.

 

[360Youth]

I OFTEN find myself in a debate whether or not I am being too anal retentive about certain things. Sometimes I ask my help to talk me down.

Here, here (for me that is.) :grin:

I believe it does affect pricing to go over the top because if you over-extend your time, you automaticly cut into your profits, but I have not yet convinced myself which is the lesser of two evils. Consistent professional craftsmanship leads its way into other projects. It leads to better reputation and word of mouth (provided, as others have mentioned, it is done in timely fashion) and makes your work neater and better on the jobs where time is not such a critical factor. If you can learn to do good clean work and be effecient on the bid projects, then you can do it on the T&M jobs and really please the customer.

Edit to add:

You cannot possibly apply the same level of quality and workmanship to every single job. Some do, but the financial results are disastrous.

I may have shared this before, but I helped trim carpenter sub do some home work where he did everything but tie in circuits to existing panel. When I looked at his work I told him that I would hire him anytime, as long as it was not by the hour, because it obviously took him extended time to do the work as neat as he did. :smile:

 

[mdshunk]

Aside from how unlikely it is that a customer would care about how pretty the interior of a panel is, much less make it the artistic centerpice of their home, where do you buy glass panel covers?

Was there some doubt in your mind as to whether this was just a figure of speech, or are you generally the objectionable sort?

 

[wireman71]

Fast and good enough go hand in hand.. I aim to do perfect work and when I fall short I ask myself is it up to code? Yes. Does it look like a amateur did it? No. Keep going and do better next time is what I tell myself.

 

[mdshunk]

Fast and good enough go hand in hand.. I aim to do perfect work and when I fall short I ask myself is it up to code? Yes. Does it look like a amateur did it? No. Keep going and do better next time is what I tell myself.

Reminds me of a line my one inspector uses from time to time. He'll look at something briefly and declare, "Yep, looks like an electrician did this work." I really appreciate being around guys with a nice attitude.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

One thing to remember,

You only get 1 chance to make a 1st impression.

 

[iwire]

One thing to remember,

You only get 1 chance to make a 1st impression.

Very true.

But not all people will think a higher price then the rest is a good impression.

Of course the kind of customer we would all like to work for will be more interested in results then price. Unfortunately I think those customers are the minority and as we move forward in the next year or two will only become more scarce.

 

[hardworkingstiff]

Very true.

But not all people will think a higher price then the rest is a good impression.

Of course the kind of customer we would all like to work for will be more interested in results then price. Unfortunately I think those customers are the minority and as we move forward in the next year or two will only become more scarce.

I just believe if you train yourself to work to a high standard, you will be able to perform to that level with minimal (or no) increase in time. Material costs should really not be any more cost.

Things like, cleaning up after yourself, keeping stuff plumb and level, working smart (like taking stuff back to the vehicle if you are done with it instead of waiting until the end of the day), being prepared for the days tasks, knowing what you will be doing at the end of the day when you start, etc etc

 

[electricmanscott]

I just believe if you train yourself to work to a high standard, you will be able to perform to that level with minimal (or no) increase in time. Material costs should really not be any more cost.

Things like, cleaning up after yourself, keeping stuff plumb and level, working smart (like taking stuff back to the vehicle if you are done with it instead of waiting until the end of the day), being prepared for the days tasks, knowing what you will be doing at the end of the day when you start, etc etc

I agree totally. Efficiency is often overlooked as a way of making the everage job more profitable.

As a one man operation I have to be step ahead of myself at all times.

When you run out to the truck to get something or worse yet the supply house, the work stops yet your time on the project increases. Trying to avoid this is important. As pointed out, done with something? Bring it out when going for something else. Saves time at the end of the day. It's the little things that make a big difference.

 

[iwire]

Things like, cleaning up after yourself, keeping stuff plumb and level, working smart (like taking stuff back to the vehicle if you are done with it instead of waiting until the end of the day), being prepared for the days tasks, knowing what you will be doing at the end of the day when you start, etc etc

I agree with that 100%. :smile:

(like taking stuff back to the vehicle if you are done with it instead of waiting until the end of the day),

Man that is a pet peeve of mine, people going out to the truck empty handed, there is almost always something that can be brought out to the truck, or taken to the dumpster along the way.

 

[jrannis]

When I do a new construction house I have made gauge pole for recp. box, switch box, and counter boxes saves me time not measuring each box and all are set at same height. But I do not pop a chalk line on the studs so all my holes are level, its going to be covered. When I drill studs I drill close to the face of the stud only need one nail plate. My son tries to drill in the center until I pointed out code to him. Say you drill 24 studs now you need 48 nail plates say 5 min. to install 24 you now have extra 5 min. to install 24 more. Sounds minuet but when you start adding the extra time and extra material over the span of a 4000 to 5000 sq ft house it will effect you bottom line. I am not saying I do not take time to make sure the recessed cans are in line, panels are neat, and every thing is up to code, and every thing the customer wants is in place, but the longer you stay on any job the less money you make.

I cant say I have ever completly roughed in a house but, I really dont understand the nailplate thing.
Is it easier to drill into the face of a wood stud, lay the wires in place and install kickplates or to drill a hole in the center of the studs and pull wire through the holes?
We have almost 100% metal studs in our area and only seem to have to use kick plates on exterior walls.

 

[jrannis]

I agree with that 100%. :smile:



Man that is a pet peeve of mine, people going out to the truck empty handed, there is almost always something that can be brought out to the truck, or taken to the dumpster along the way.

I worked in an office and one of the guys pulled be to the side said not to ever walk around the office with out carrying something in your hands. He said if I didnt have any thing that I need to carry a file folder or something as a "prop". I thought that was funny back then.
Now, I notice how bad people look walking around on jobsites empty handed. I let cronic offenders in on the "prop" story.
Soon they learn that something always needs to be moved from point A to point B and will now carry something to or from the truck/ gangbox without being asked, or will ask if anyone needs something brought back.

 

[emahler]

I worked in an office and one of the guys pulled be to the side said not to ever walk around the office with out carrying something in your hands. He said if I didnt have any thing that I need to carry a file folder or something as a "prop". I thought that was funny back then.
Now, I notice how bad people look walking around on jobsites empty handed. I let cronic offenders in on the "prop" story.
Soon they learn that something always needs to be moved from point A to point B and will now carry something to or from the truck/ gangbox without being asked, or will ask if anyone needs something brought back.

learned that method years ago...also, i teach the guys to equate what we do to playing a round of golf (especially when doing work in a finished office - or anywhere that the customer is looking at you)

when you play golf, you hustle from where you are to where the ball is...then you slow down, focus and hit the ball...then you hustle to the next location...slow down, focus, hit the ball...

same with what we do...hustle from the job box to the area that you are working...then slow down, focus and execute properly...

nothing worse than having a customer call your office and say that your men are lollygagging....

at least learn how to look like you give a crap about what you are doing

 

[guschash]

I think quality is what makes the wheels turn. If you do quality work, you will never be out ot work. Word of mouth is the best advertising. We treat every job, like we own the place, and if it takes longer to do it right. So be it.

 

[iwire]

If you do quality work, you will never be out ot work.

It sounds good to say but I don't think that is reality for most people.

 

[guschash]

I think all trades should and want to do quality work. I always thought and still do that if you are in the trades, no matter what that is, you are there because you like working with your hands. That you enjoyed the challenge of figuring out a problem and fixing it. That is the satfaction of being in the trades. The people I have worked with were all like that, hey we have a challenge here. That's what we are all about. I remember one time when I worked in the glass plant, now when we were down, it cost the company $60000 every 15 minutes were down. I was walking with my boss, its totally dark can't see a thing, I look at boss and this great we get to use your skills. He felt the same way. Sorry if I got carried away but thats how I feel. We're in the trade because we want be and we enjoy the challenge, a challenge to fix it and make it right because we know how.

 

[electricmanscott]

It sounds good to say but I don't think that is reality for most people.

Bob is 100% correct on this. 2007 was not a particularly good year for me and at the risk of sounding like a dbag, I do far better work than many of the guys around here who were very busy. More often than not it is the bottom line that matters. That's just the way it is.