One thing that also must be considered is the ability to dissipate any heating. If there isn't enough area around the conductor to dissipate heat, the heat will build up and keep on building up. Heat just magically doesn't go away. If it isn't allowed to be ventilated or conducted away the temperature will keep on rising. And that is the wildcard.
'Proof' that AFCI devices really locate arcs.
- Thread starter K8MHZ
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One thing that also must be considered is the ability to dissipate any heating. If there isn't enough area around the conductor to dissipate heat, the heat will build up and keep on building up. Heat just magically doesn't go away. If it isn't allowed to be ventilated or conducted away the temperature will keep on rising. And that is the wildcard.
2nd set
2nd set
Pleased note the way SqD uses a shorter magnet structure but loops the beaded conductor through the structure and back to the bimetallic strip. SQds appears to be more robust.
If you look closely you will be a cal screw on the C-H and SqD but non that it noticed on the BR/QC.
Not the little arc chutes in the BR/QC.
2nd set
Pleased note the way SqD uses a shorter magnet structure but loops the beaded conductor through the structure and back to the bimetallic strip. SQds appears to be more robust.
If you look closely you will be a cal screw on the C-H and SqD but non that it noticed on the BR/QC.
Not the little arc chutes in the BR/QC.
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Sierrasparky
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You are correct, I will add that in all my years doing service calls I never saw a issue of where a I had a melted splice or backwired melted outlet that was lightly loaded.
mbrooke
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True, but in typical dwelling systems a 30amp fuse on #14 doesn't start a fire.
mbrooke
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Of course, the issue is in the connections if anything. In any case a properly done splice will take overloading just as good as the wire, if not better.
mbrooke
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AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!
:thumbsup:Saving these pics as I speak. The breaker with the red handle is Bryant, correct?
Does the wire ehat up in doing so? If so then if it happens to be run in an area where it is closed in the heat will build up because it can't dissipate. Extentions cords are able to cary more current becacuase theye are in open air. cover then up and the heat will build up.
YUes, it's a 20at Bryant basically a BR and the old Westinghouse QC. It doesn't look as though they ahve cange a thing since the original QCI'm double checking as I may have missed a few. I have 18 pics total.AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!
Saving these pics as I speak. The breaker with the red handle is Bryant, correct?
The SqD is impressive, the C-H soso, the BR/Bryant, cheep cheep cheep.
If I had a homeline I would like to take that apart to see what makes it tike also. .
mbrooke
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Of course, but not to the level to ignite material let alone melt insulation.
It appears as though I didn't post all of The Qo pics.
It appears as though I didn't post all of The Qo pics.
Look closely at the QO magfnet structure hoe they loop the braded conductor through and then back to the bimetallic strip which is different than the C-H and BR.
But the Sqd structure is 2/3 as lond as the others. The SqD also appears to be more bust.
All use a basic clapper typ mech, one part is sort os a long horseshoe magnet nor which is pulled against a flat plate of the same width and length.
The on;t breaker that I have seen that actually uses a solonoid type structure is the MCPs up to 150a. With the MCPs your are able to adjust the mag pickup but adjusting a gap using a cam type emch.
I belive if they could get a solenoid mech to fit in these breakers it may allow them to be more closely calibrated. But the real estate may not be there to do that.
It appears as though I didn't post all of The Qo pics.
Look closely at the QO magfnet structure hoe they loop the braded conductor through and then back to the bimetallic strip which is different than the C-H and BR.
But the Sqd structure is 2/3 as lond as the others. The SqD also appears to be more bust.
All use a basic clapper typ mech, one part is sort os a long horseshoe magnet nor which is pulled against a flat plate of the same width and length.
The on;t breaker that I have seen that actually uses a solonoid type structure is the MCPs up to 150a. With the MCPs your are able to adjust the mag pickup but adjusting a gap using a cam type emch.
I belive if they could get a solenoid mech to fit in these breakers it may allow them to be more closely calibrated. But the real estate may not be there to do that.
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Same here. A poorly done splice can go for years unnoticed provided the load is small enough. One thing I've dealt with before are suprised h.o.s who swear that a burned receptacle never caused any issues before-until the hvac went out and they plugged in that small window ac or space heater into that back stabbed outlet.
One last set of pics of a 150a HMCP and a 100a frame TM brealker.
One last set of pics of a 150a HMCP and a 100a frame TM brealker.
These pics show the solenoid type trip of a MCP up to 150 and the TM element of TM breakers in a 100a frame.
Note the bimetallic element along with the horseshoe channel magnet to the far right in the pic.
You wil note that the solenoid is wound with very heavy conductor capable of carrying 100% 0f the breakers rated current. This one happems to be 150a. This is why it is extremely important that the MCP be applied properly as you can burn the coil up. I had this problem with my product at Cape Kennedy where they were attempting to test them anfd then claimed that they were defective. They were in fact defective all right only after they tested them and burnt the coils up. A simple shiff test will tell.
The purpose of my pics is to illustrate the traditional electro-mechanical thermal magnetic trip elements. When trying to address a closer magnetic trip coordination using the existing designs that are commonly used it may be difficult to do.
One last set of pics of a 150a HMCP and a 100a frame TM brealker.
These pics show the solenoid type trip of a MCP up to 150 and the TM element of TM breakers in a 100a frame.
Note the bimetallic element along with the horseshoe channel magnet to the far right in the pic.
You wil note that the solenoid is wound with very heavy conductor capable of carrying 100% 0f the breakers rated current. This one happems to be 150a. This is why it is extremely important that the MCP be applied properly as you can burn the coil up. I had this problem with my product at Cape Kennedy where they were attempting to test them anfd then claimed that they were defective. They were in fact defective all right only after they tested them and burnt the coils up. A simple shiff test will tell.
The purpose of my pics is to illustrate the traditional electro-mechanical thermal magnetic trip elements. When trying to address a closer magnetic trip coordination using the existing designs that are commonly used it may be difficult to do.
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romex jockey
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The EFSI was created and manned by manufacturers MBrook
I can not , in a public forum, express my outrage at these people......
~RJ~
romex jockey
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a nod to templdl
you don't miss much.....
~RJ~
you don't miss much.....
~RJ~
donaldelectrician
Senior Member
The sad thing about this video is that they state it as as fact when there is no proof or documentation. As I said numerous times if what was i this video was so true the insurance companies certainly would be alll ver it and pushing for their use and possibly reducing premiums when used.
It is often said that if my Aunt had gonads she'd be my uncle.
growler
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There would be no reason to use a 30 amp fuse unless you had a load that would blow a 20 amp fuse. Try doing a few voltage drop calculations on #14 GA wire with say a 25 amp load. The length of the conductor becomes very important real fast.
At what point does the insulation become damaged? We don't need to worry about that so long a we protect the conductor at 15 amps and derate as necessary for other factors.
The cable we install today may be in use for the next 70-80 years so it's probably better to keep it as cool and protected as possible.
mbrooke
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Of course, thats why I say you would have to be deliberately trying to burn down your home. The voltage drop would surely be noticed by the occupants let alone 7 space heaters.
I am in no way advocating that #14 be used at 30amps, but in reality there is so much safety factor built in that statements regarding overloaded circuits and 30amp fuses being behind home fires is purely a myth.
mbrooke
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The EFSI was created and manned by manufacturers MBrook
I can not , in a public forum, express my outrage at these people......
~RJ~
Let me be the one to say that I hold the same outrage. EFSI is purely a manufacturer's puppet serving as a mouth piece. I have been looking at their AFCI propaganda both PDF and videos and its nothing but scare tactics and opinions presented as facts. They have a lot of material targeted at kids and teachers so its obvious their existence is entirely to create one sided public opinion.
There is hardly anything in most AFCI videos that holds any truth. All talk with zero evidence to back up said claims. Immoral to say the least. Its convenient for them because for the vast majority of the general public questions little if anything coming from what is perceived as an respectable authority figure. Yet anyone with an ounce of doubt will tell you those firefighters are reading of teleprompters.
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