raised cover on 1900 box

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iwire said:
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What I find worse abut this is suddenly you, one of the members that brings documentation and outside sources to threads regularly all of sudden says we don't need those things when it is clear you simply cannot find any to support your view.
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I'm not saying we don't need those things for all things, but I am saying we don't need those things for this thing. :D

Some things are so basic that there just isn't any documentation... and this issue is one of 'em. If it becomes an issue, you can be damn sure there will be some documentation on it.
 
To me this scenario would be much like putting a flush mount panel cover on a surface mount loadcenter or panelboard. The Panel Tub much like the 4 square box is made to accept both.

Where does it say that this is illegal ?


JAP>
 
jap said:
To me this scenario would be much like putting a flush mount panel cover on a surface mount loadcenter or panelboard. The Panel Tub much like the 4 square box is made to accept both.

Where does it say that this is illegal ?


JAP>
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possible in the listing of the panelboards
 
jusme123 said:
possible in the listing of the panelboards
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If the "listing" actually said there was a difference between "surface" and "flush" panelboard covers, then the single (surface/flush mount) cover offered with various panelboards would not be available the way that it actually is.

The panelboard packages readily available in the marketplace contradict your supposition.
 
al hildenbrand said:
If the "listing" actually said there was a difference between "surface" and "flush" panelboard covers, then the single (surface/flush mount) cover offered with various panelboards would not be available the way that it actually is.

The panelboard packages readily available in the marketplace contradict your supposition.
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Where's your documentation?


After all, opinions have no foundation without documentation. ;)

And don't forget, the labeling weighs just as heavily as the listing when compliance with 110.3(B) is involved. If packaging or cover is labeled surface mount (note it does not have to say surface mount only, just in case you try to play that card), you are limited to surface mount installation to be in compliance.
 
al hildenbrand said:
Here's the basic Siemens panel installation instruction PDF. Note accessories include surface mount standoff, but there is complete silence about the single cover offering and the panel itself as to whether it is only flush or surface mount.
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I didn't check all documentation regarding that series of panelboard, but that doesn't appear to be one which offers a choice between surface mount and flush mount cover. It would have to be a panelboard with that option.
 
teufelhounden91 said:
What is an FS box?
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Some know them as Bell boxes or cast boxes:

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Smart $ said:
But it is still a model which uses the same cover for both flush and surface mount. Dig up one which has a different cover for each type of mounting.
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Ho Hum. Look. I offered docs for my "opinion". If you need to explore other possibilities, go look at Square D QO panels.
 
Smart $ said:
In many cases, the design use is in the name of the product (product label).

Need I explain a mud ring's design use.

Same goes for a wall plate.
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The use is in the name of the product?

OK, I think we are done now. :cool:
 

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...if I was an electrical inspector and you wired an entire building with surface mounted 1900 boxes, and used raised mud rings on every receptacle/switch box, I would fail the inspection. I site 110.3, don't like...tough
 
jusme123 said:
...if I was an electrical inspector and you wired an entire building with surface mounted 1900 boxes, and used raised mud rings on every receptacle/switch box, I would fail the inspection. I site 110.3, don't like...tough
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It's OK, the chances of you becoming an inspector are about the same chances of me becoming a saint.
 
iwire said:
The use is in the name of the product?

OK, I think we are done now. :cool:
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I said the design use can be discerned from the product label. The product name typically has the most weight, but other pieces of data cannot be totally ignored.

FWIW, the product shown's base model is UL Listed as 769 under file E195978 and more specifically, category QCIT and therein listed in the paragraph "Covers for outlet boxes, ...".

Here's a couple tidbits from the 2015-16 white book, catgory QCIT:
MUD RINGS
A mud ring positions a flush-mounted wiring device flush with the finished
wall surface. Mud rings may be provided with either a fixed or
adjustable depth sleeve.
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REQUIREMENTS
The basic standards used to investigate products in this category are
ANSI/UL 514A, ‘‘Metallic Outlet Boxes,’’ and ANSI/UL 514D, ‘‘Cover
Plates for Flush-Mounted Wiring Devices.’’
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SOURCE: http://ul.com/wp-content/uploads/20...=vanity&utm_campaign=codeauthoritieswhitebook

FWIW, I not going to pay for that 514D standard just to see what it has to say on the matter.
 
Smart $ said:
I said the design use can be discerned from the product label. The product name typically has the most weight, but other pieces of data cannot be totally ignored.

FWIW, the product shown's base model is UL Listed as 769 under file E195978 and more specifically, category QCIT and therein listed in the paragraph "Covers for outlet boxes, ...".
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Look again at the small print at the bottom left of the manufacture's label . . . this is "listed 731A" as a "cover", not a mud ring. The language you quote doesn't apply.

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al hildenbrand said:
Look again at the small print at the bottom left of the manufacture's label . . . this is "listed 731A" as a "cover", not a mud ring. The language you quote doesn't apply.
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It says a Listed 731A Cover. Can you find a listed 731A product other than this one that uses such a cover? Exactly what is 731A? Couldn't find anything meaningful on the web....

Anyway, what I posted on Mud Rings covers all labeled mud rings. :p
 
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