raised cover on 1900 box

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wwhitney said:
So I can't use a mudring in the side of a kitchen cabinet, as it is not a finished wall surface?
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Not Al... but if you go by listing documentation, you would be non-compliant.

Regarding this issue, some common sense discretionary measures go a long way... but as we can see, common sense can be quite uncommon at times.

;)
 
jusme123 said:
...raised covers are intended/designed for surface mounted applications, as mud rings are intended/designed for flush mounted applications.
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No.

Mud rings and Raised covers are designed to be mounted to a box.

At what point do you determine what is considered surface or Flush?

By what Your saying above, if I mount an 1 1/2" deep 4 square box on a block wall, and someone comes along and puts 2" rigid insulation board around my box, using a raised cover in that scenario would be a code violation since the device will then end up being flush ?

I doubt it.

JAP>
 
Smart $ said:
Regarding this issue, some common sense discretionary measures go a long way... but as we can see, common sense can be quite uncommon at times.
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The thing is, from my perspective it is you that is not using commonsense.

You can't find documentation, you ignore the labels and moved on to calling a major electrical manufacturer shady.

Yeah, to me that seems kind of nuts. :huh:
 
iwire said:
The thing is, from my perspective it is you that is not using commonsense.

You can't find documentation, you ignore the labels and moved on to calling a major electrical manufacturer shady.

Yeah, to me that seems kind of nuts. :huh:
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How hard is it to comprehend (and mind you, it is documented and has been pointed out for your discretion) that a mud ring is for mounting a flush-mount device flush with a finished [wall] surface and covered with a wall plate.

A mud ring is not intended to be used for surface mounted outlet boxes.

To defend a position otherwise is nuts from my perspective... including the concept that a mud ring is not a mud ring simply because it is not listed or labeled as a mud ring.
 
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jap said:
No.

Mud rings and Raised covers are designed to be mounted to a box.

At what point do you determine what is considered surface or Flush?

By what Your saying above, if I mount an 1 1/2" deep 4 square box on a block wall, and someone comes along and puts 2" rigid insulation board around my box, using a raised cover in that scenario would be a code violation since the device will then end up being flush ?

I doubt it.

JAP>
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As posted earlier...

...from the 2015-16 white book, catgory QCIT:
MUD RINGS
A mud ring positions a flush-mounted wiring device flush with the finished
wall surface. Mud rings may be provided with either a fixed or
adjustable depth sleeve.
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So you perceive 2" rigid insulation board as a finished wall surface?
 
Smart $ said:
As posted earlier...

...from the 2015-16 white book, catgory QCIT:


So you perceive 2" rigid insulation board as a finished wall surface?
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Answer yes or no on my example.
is it illegal or is it not ?

JAP>
 
Smart $ said:
How hard is it to comprehend (and mind you, it is documented and has been pointed out for your discretion) that a mud ring is for mounting a flush-mount device flush with a finished [wall] surface and covered with a wall plate.

A mud ring is not intended to be used for surface mounted outlet boxes.

To defend a position otherwise is nuts from my perspective... including the concept that a mud ring is not a mud ring simply because it is not listed or labeled as a mud ring.
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I agree with you as far as intent.
but there is a whole world full of things that are intended to be used for one thing but serve other purposes just as well.

Heck, I've got a 2" rigid coupling propping my door open,,, does that make it illegal?

JAP>
 
Smart $ said:
So you perceive 2" rigid insulation board as a finished wall surface?
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It can be. There is rigid polyisocyanurate foam with an extra thick foil face so that it can be left exposed without the need for a 15 minute thermal barrier. And I believe there are vinyl faced insulation products also designed to be left exposed.

Cheers, Wayne
 
Smart $ said:
How hard is it to comprehend (and mind you, it is documented and has been pointed out for your discretion) that a mud ring is for mounting a flush-mount device flush with a finished [wall] surface and covered with a wall plate.
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The glaring flaw in this berating chiding jibe of yours is YOUR ASSUMPTION that something that looks like a mud ring, to you, HAS to be a mud ring in spite of a major manufacturer, AND UL itself, together, listing and labeling it as a "device cover".

Smart $ said:
A mud ring is not intended to be used for surface mounted outlet boxes.
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You have shown absolutely no documentation of this intent as being all encompassing for anything that "looks like" a mud ring and that the intent is absolute and without exception. And, until you can show that the Raco product line is something other than what it is labeled and listed as, any statement of yours of this type is without foundation, and meaningless.

Smart $ said:
To defend a position otherwise is nuts from my perspective... including the concept that a mud ring is not a mud ring simply because it is not listed or labeled as a mud ring.
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This is obviously your opinion. We get that. That, and a quarter, leaves you with twenty five cents.
 
jumper said:
Yes, code requires a minimum of a 3" standard trade size RMC coupling for a door stop.:D
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Just trying to lighten things up a bit..... and by the way,,, I always keep a quarter in my pocket so that plus my opinion plus a quarter always leaves me with 50 cents...:)

JAP>
 
jap said:
Answer yes or no on my example.
is it illegal or is it not ?

JAP>
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wwhitney said:
It can be. There is rigid polyisocyanurate foam with an extra thick foil face so that it can be left exposed without the need for a 15 minute thermal barrier. And I believe there are vinyl faced insulation products also designed to be left exposed.

Cheers, Wayne
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Agreed if the "finish" coat is there. But as and when installed (i.e. no board there) it is technically non-compliant.
 
Smart $ said:
A quarter plus sense to spare here... whereas in your case, I believe you're lacking spare part.
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Hey Smart,,,,, tell me I have sense, so that, plus the quarter I had to begin with, would make me richer and more sensible than both of you.....

Jap>
 
jap said:
Hey Smart,,,,, tell me I have sense, so that, plus the quarter I had to begin with, would make me richer and more sensible than both of you.....

Jap>
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Perhaps richer in one sense, but that last part doesn't add up on my side of the coin. :D
 
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