Re identification of neutral wire

[Djelite]

there were 3 statements in Larry Fine post, which one might be wrong

Theres no thing as a neutral wire

White #6 and smaller must be used as a grounded conductor in conduits because there is no excuse for not doing so.......is not a valid reason

 

[electrofelon]

White #6 and smaller must be used as a grounded conductor in conduits because there is no excuse for not doing so.......is not a valid reason

IMO not being able to reidentify 6 and smaller as white is a dumb rule. This is America dammit and I will decide!

 

[jim dungar]

Theres no thing as a neutral wire

The NEC requires the grounded conductor to be white, or grey.

The NEC specifically defines a grounded conductor including:
The grounded conductor of a 2 wire system (like the negative conductor in a DC circuit)
The corner grounded conductor on a delta system (like a grounded B phase)
The grounded conductor connected to the neutral point of a system (like theNEC definition for a neutral conductor).

 

[Djelite]

IMO not being able to reidentify 6 and smaller as white is a dumb rule. This is America dammit and I will decide!

I dont see nothing wrong with but no one can tell me why 6awg was chosen and more importantly how is this a safety issue between 6awg and 4

 

[electrofelon]

I dont see nothing wrong with but no one can tell me why 6awg was chosen and more importantly how is this a safety issue between 6awg and 4

Like many things in the code, they had to pick a value and draw the line somewhere. I doubt there was much technical reason behind that choice.

 

[Djelite]

The NEC requires the grounded conductor to be white, or grey.

The NEC specifically defines a grounded conductor including:
The grounded conductor of a 2 wire system (like the negative conductor in a DC circuit)
The corner grounded conductor on a delta system (like a grounded B phase)
The grounded conductor connected to the neutral point of a system (like theNEC definition for a neutral conductor).

Now tell me where it states theres no such wire as a neutral wire

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I dont see nothing wrong with but no one can tell me why 6awg was chosen and more importantly how is this a safety issue between 6awg and 4

I think it has to do with availability of conductors. In the past white conductors larger than 6 were not regularly available

 

[Djelite]

No the codes finding should come from research and test not someones feeling. So why 6awg . There has to be a reason

 

[Dennis Alwon]

As to why taping a white wire is taboo is simply to avoid a case of misidentification, especially if the marking is just at the end of the conductor

 

[GoldDigger]

Theres no thing as a neutral wire

How about "There is no such thing as a neutral wire. There are only wires that are used as the neutral conductor of a circuit."?
Until you connect it, it is not a neutral.
In addition, in most cases when a neutral exists the NEC requires that it be grounded.
But not all neutrals are grounded, and no all grounded conductors are neutrals.

 

[Djelite]

Why not use color wire . Where im getting at is this the code book sometime changes its own rule accommodate certain parties as long as is still safe its like lobbying.

 

[electrofelon]

No the codes finding should come from research and test not someones feeling. So why 6awg . There has to be a reason

Why was 1/0 chosen as the minimum parallel size? Why was 10 foot chosen for the tap rule? Why was 6 chosen for the 6 handle rule? although you can probably conclude that going over a given quantity or length would pose an increased hazard for some reason,. Choosing where to draw the line is pretty much going to be arbitrary.

 

[Djelite]

I think it has to do with availability of conductors. In the past white conductors larger than 6 were not regularly available

What does that have to do with safety. One can make the availability argument with just about anything

 

[Djelite]

There were test on these

 

[Djelite]

How about "There is no such thing as a neutral wire. There are only wires that are used as the neutral conductor of a circuit."?
Until you connect it, it is not a neutral.
In addition, in most cases when a neutral exists the NEC requires that it be grounded.
But not all neutrals are grounded, and no all grounded conductors are neutrals.

Perfect.

 

[Djelite]

Perfect.

Use color wire

 

[electrofelon]

What does that have to do with safety. One can make the availability argument with just about anything

Because you have to weigh the costs vs benefits.

 

[Djelite]

I didnt know the new was in the business of determining whats more cost effective. Where in article 90 is that stated?

 

[electrofelon]

I didnt know the new was in the business of determining whats more cost effective. Where in article 90 is that stated?

With AFCI they definitely demonstrated they do not care About cost vs benefit......

Clearly though a standard takes into account cost vs benefit. If not the NEC would only allow rigid, there would be no tap rules, no next size up rule, and everything would be 12 volts. If they were strictly concerned about safety with no concern for cost, why not?

 

[Djelite]

With AFCI they definitely demonstrated they do not care About cost vs benefit......

Clearly though a standard takes into account cost vs benefit. If not the NEC would only allow rigid, there would be no tap rules, no next size up rule, and everything would be 12 volts. If they were strictly concerned about safety with no concern for cost, why not?

Tap rules has science and test to back up their theory. Im still trying to find out why 6awg vs4awg thats it. And no i dont want to hear it was someones opinion since everything else gets tested before passing