Re identification of neutral wire

[LarryFine]

I dont see nothing wrong with but no one can tell me why 6awg was chosen and more importantly how is this a safety issue between 6awg and 4

Again, I believe the rule was written to suit how wire was manufactured, not the other way around.

In other words, I do not believe that they only made #6 and smaller wire in colors to suit the code.

 

[LarryFine]

Why not use color wire . Where im getting at is this the code book sometime changes its own rule accommodate certain parties as long as is still safe its like lobbying.

Because, until recently, nobody made white wire larger than #6.

 

[kwired]

I never mention that the CMP did the search, i said the research was done. I wasnt looking for the formulas. The member i was chatting with was but again both great points. I agree 100%

You did kind of come across as "they are in the code" though and was asked what or where are they. All that is in the code is results of whatever study was done to come up with what is in there, and no formulas on how what is in there was determined to be necessary.

 

[Djelite]

It's because, as are the allowances for use of conductors in cable assemblies, that's how manufacturers make wire.

#6 and smaller gauges have been available in colors for decades, so they must be installed as code requires.

Until recently, nobody made larger wire in colors, so the code was written to allow us to identify them in the field.

That's what I meant by no excuse: They make smaller wires in colors, so there's no excuse for us to use the wrong color.


2-wire NM cable is made with white and black, so the code is written around them, with allowances to use the white as a hot.

The white wire is not always a neutral, it's just a white wire. It becomes a neutral only when it's landed on a neutral bus.


Think about thermostat wire and how it evolved: First, there was just red and white for micro-volt and later 24v heating.

Then, forced-air units were introduced, so they added a green wire; then AC, so they added yellow.

The wire colors are assigned as they are because that's how cables are made, not the other way around.

Very good

 

[LarryFine]

Happy sundae

Isn't that a dessert at McDonald's?

 

[Djelite]

You did kind of come across as "they are in the code" though and was asked what or where are they. All that is in the code is results of whatever study was done to come up with what is in there, and no formulas on how what is in there was determined to be necessary.

I refered him to mike holts understanding the code book 240.21 the book and helps explain it. I did not mean it was in the code. Thats why im saying thats these books that explain the code should explain the WHY and not just repeat a code reference like everyone else

 

[kwired]

Again, I believe the rule was written to suit how wire was manufactured, not the other way around.

In other words, I do not believe that they only made #6 and smaller wire in colors to suit the code.

I do believe this thing with larger than 6 AWG was possibly somewhat driven by what was typically available at one time.

Around here you did see quite a bit of 6 AWG from certain time periods that was marked with green or white, something tells me either inspection wasn't picking on it at the time, it wasn't available in green/white at the time, or a little of both. (I'm pretty sure it wasn't code compliant at the time) I'd guess it was a little of both reasons that led to this - if people aren't going to buy it in white or green then the suppliers have little reason to stock it. My guess is inspectors probably stopped accepting it and then demand went up so suppliers started stocking it.

 

[wildcat greg]

White #6 and smaller must be used as a grounded conductor in conduits because there is no excuse for not doing so.......is not a valid reason

have new neutral question per nec do neutral conductors in a commercial panelboard have to be numbered to match breaker number where terminated

 

[roger]

have new neutral question per nec do neutral conductors in a commercial panelboard have to be numbered to match breaker number where terminated

No.

Roger

 

[Djelite]

200.4b

 

[roger]

200.4b

That's not an answer to the question as asked

Roger

 

[Fred B]

have new neutral question per nec do neutral conductors in a commercial panelboard have to be numbered to match breaker number where terminated

In the strictest sense no. But 200.4(B) does indicate that conductors related to a particular circuit be grouped or identified by cable ties, wire markers or similar means, when there is more that one neutral conductors associated with more that one circuit within and enclosure. Exception exists if the conductors entering are from a cable or individual raceway, or if conductors simply pass thru the box or enclosure without a loop or splice.
Many time electricians will provide a marking as described just to make future identification easier but not required by code.

 

[kwired]

200.4b

Numbering can be one way to comply with 200.4(B) when it applies though, but numbering isn't mandatory either.

 

[Djelite]

That's not an answer to the question as

Numbering can be one way to comply with 200.4(B) when it applies though, but numbering isn't mandatory either.

I provided the article so he can read what it states. No statement for or against nec rules were expressed.

 

[Djelite]

The answer is in 200.4b

 

[jim dungar]

The answer is in 200.4b

That article talks about identifying which conductors belong together in a circuit. There is nothing in there about identifying which group of conductors belong to any specific breaker.

 

[Djelite]

yes i know

 

[roger]

yes i know

Then the answer to his question is not in there is it? I know where you were going with the article section but, the reason many test questions are answered wrong is that the test taker reads more into the question than what was asked.

Roger

 

[Djelite]

I didnt know we were taking a test lol

 

[Djelite]

Then the answer to his question is not in there is it? I know where you were going with the article section but, the reason many test questions are answered wrong is that the test taker reads more into the question than what was asked.

Roger

The message of the wording leads you to the answer