Receptacle for air cond. equip.

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Many commercial plans that I see have switched outside plugs to prevent power theft. The service personnel from one business doesn't have access to the switch in a different business and that second business might be locked and closed at the time of servicing.

Is there a requirement that the service plug actually work ?

David
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Also note that it just say we have one within 25 feet.Could we not say that we will run it from an outlet by way of 25 foot extention cord from inside the office thru open door or window (not good idea).

I am 100% aginst this one receptacle install but think for lack of a SHALL NOT that it is legal.They did mention it cant be off the load side of disconnect and point us to the gfci section.I think they just assumed it was from the same meter.We all know about that word.
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Even if the inside plug was a GFCI, you can't access a plug thru a window.

How do you apply the word "accessible" to the path of a cord ? 680.22(A)(6) talks about the path of a "supply cord" and says that "window openings" are included in the category of "effective permanent barrier".

Obviously 680 refers to pools but it gives the only definition of measuring a supply cord path that I know of in the code.

David

edited to add: You actually are allowed to access a plug thru a window. The code is installation violations not usage violations. But you can't plan to use window access during planning or installation. That would be a violation.
 
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dnem said:
Many commercial plans that I see have switched outside plugs to prevent power theft. The service personnel from one business doesn't have access to the switch in a different business and that second business might be locked and closed at the time of servicing.

Is there a requirement that the service plug actually work ?

David
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I was thinking of this very thing as I was reading the banter. I would install another recept if the existing one was switched. I also feel that the AHJ would have a legitimate argument if this were the case. Otherwise, I don't feel you need to install another one.
 
dnem said:
210.25 pretty much ends the question about residential.
I think an argument could be made for exclusion on commercial also according to the wording in 210.63. It says that the plug has to be "installed at an accessible location" which 100 defines as: "Accessible (as applied to equipment). Admitting close approach; not guarded by locked doors, elevation, or other effective means."

Wouldn't tresspassing on another property and stealing power metered thru someone elses service be an "effective means" that would prevent "close approach" ?

David
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The outside is common area to both so its not tresspassing.It is power theft unless you have permision to use it for this reason.I rather dought the service man will be there if the building is not open (he needs to get to both halves of unit and the thermastat.Chances are high if the AC is broke the window is open anyways.Would you hire a service man that does not carry a 100 foot cord with him ?This 25 foot rule is a bit crazy.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
"Wouldn't tresspassing on another property and stealing power metered thru someone elses service be an "effective means" that would prevent "close approach" ?

David"

That and a big dog would do it. ;)
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Whats to say that the tenant that pays for that receptacle simply signs a paper that allows the other tenant ti use this outlet as part of the lease agreement.That closes that idea.Also that would not be up to the ahj to inforce.Just maybe i hit on a way around installing this outlet at all by simply using one of the inside outlets (gfci protected).
 
Well since there is no power on for a final here the question of is it an active receptacle or on anothers meter is just academic.As long as there is either a gfci device or a gfci protected sticker on the receptacle plate the AHJ will have to assume #1 it works,#2 it is gfci protected,#3 as long as these provisions are met it will pass a final inspection process.
 
allenwayne said:
Well since there is no power on for a final here the question of is it an active receptacle or on anothers meter is just academic.As long as there is either a gfci device or a gfci protected sticker on the receptacle plate the AHJ will have to assume #1 it works,#2 it is gfci protected,#3 as long as these provisions are met it will pass a final inspection process.
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Is the sticker requirement a local code?
 
Let`s just say that since there is no power on final inspection the AHJ`S will not pass the final unless there is either a GFCI device,or a GFCI sticker saying gfci protected.I have always thought this to be wll stupid since the receptacle might not actually be GFCI protected.I couldn`t start to count the finals over the years that were tagged for no sticker.As a common rule there is an interior receptacle then the rest off the load side,or a line sided device is used.But without the sticker on a line sided receptacle it will not pass.Reason cited no GFCI protection.
 
allenwayne said:
Let`s just say that since there is no power on final inspection the AHJ`S will not pass the final unless there is either a GFCI device,or a GFCI sticker saying gfci protected.I have always thought this to be wll stupid since the receptacle might not actually be GFCI protected.I couldn`t start to count the finals over the years that were tagged for no sticker.As a common rule there is an interior receptacle then the rest off the load side,or a line sided device is used.But without the sticker on a line sided receptacle it will not pass.Reason cited no GFCI protection.
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But the sticker proves nothing. It's just a sticker. If the concern is whether or not the receptacle is protected than the inspection should be done after the place is powered up. And what article do they cite for no sticker, since it's not in the book?
 
infinity said:
But the sticker proves nothing. It's just a sticker. If the concern is whether or not the receptacle is protected than the inspection should be done after the place is powered up. And what article do they cite for no sticker, since it's not in the book?
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Its just how its done here,stupid yes but no power till CO on some larger commercial jobs i can get a temp power release
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Its just how its done here,stupid yes but no power till CO on some larger commercial jobs i can get a temp power release
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It just seems rather silly to require a sticker that is not required by the NEC to pass an installation that may or may not be GFCI protected, which is required by the NEC.
 
iwire said:
Wouldn't 110.3(B) require it.

Otherwise I agree.
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I've have yet to see instructions requiring that the stickers actually need to be used. IMO this is no different than manufacturers providing anti-short bushings with MC cable. Use them if you want or throw them away. Ditto for the stickers.
 
infinity said:
It just seems rather silly to require a sticker that is not required by the NEC to pass an installation that may or may not be GFCI protected, which is required by the NEC.
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It makes the inspector happy and he goes away.They never even get to check gfci or afci or anything else.Easy to pass.
 
infinity said:
I've have yet to see instructions requiring that the stickers actually need to be used. IMO this is no different than manufacturers providing anti-short bushings with MC cable. Use them if you want or throw them away. Ditto for the stickers.
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I agree if the instructions do not require it.

Now I will have to go look at some instructions. :)
 
iwire said:
I agree if the instructions do not require it.

Now I will have to go look at some instructions. :)
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Don't even think of not using them anti shorts at our company and if i ever catch one of our guys not using them i will personally turn him in.We seldom ever have a short from them and keeping it that way.I do agree the stickers prove nothing but it releases the inspector from checking them.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
It makes the inspector happy and he goes away.They never even get to check gfci or afci or anything else.Easy to pass.
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I agree. I wouldn't argue over something as trivial as a sticker. I'm all for the path of least resistance. If the GFCI sticker equals a green sticker I'm all for it. However it still seems pretty dumb to require the sticker and not actually test to see if the receptacle is GFCI protected.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Don't even think of not using them anti shorts at our company and if i ever catch one of our guys not using them i will personally turn him in.We seldom ever have a short from them and keeping it that way.I do agree the stickers prove nothing but it releases the inspector from checking them.
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We always use them too, but as I said they're not required either.
 
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