Receptacles and suspended ceilings

Merry Christmas
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

thinfool

Senior Member
Location
Kentucky
I was at a ceu class a few months ago listening to the code discussion. A momentary distraction caused me to miss the whole statement, so all that I can remember is "you cannot install a receptacle above a suspended ceiling". Or at least I thought that is what I heard.

Can someone help me here...is there a code reference that deals with this? I am currently looking at several commercial jobs that clearly specify outlets above suspended ceilings.

Thanks!
 
Bob
I ran into this just today. A beautiful job by the EC in an installation. 8 of the rooms had a projector installed attached to the drop ceiling. I asked the electrician where the receptacles were for the projectors. He calmly answered they were behing the drop ceiling panels. I told him the receptacles were okay, but the cord could not pass through the ceiling panels. The same for the screens. He did say the receptacles were close to the panels, so that only 8 or so inches of cord would pass through. I referenced 400.8(5) and told him to call when they were corrected. I had passed the building inspector and the fire marshal leaving, as I entered to make my inspection.
 
You know, thinking about this, it is almost as though the CMP deliberately did not prohibit the receptacle knowing that the end user would be the violator of 400.8(5) thus making 400.8(5) almost impossible to enforce.

Pierre, if the electrician had said the owner would use extension cords to plug the screens into wall outlets and the receptacles above the ceilings were for running a vacuum above the ceiling at times, (I know that is ridiculous for most of us but there are some) how would you have handled the situation.

Roger
 
Roger
That would be fine with me. I told him he did not have to remove the receptacles in the ceiling as they are not a violation. I only told him he could not pass the cord through the ceiling tile. As a matter of fact, the cords were not passing through the ceiling tile, I just asked how they were going to be supplied... that is when he told me the cords would be passed through the ceiling tile.
BTW: this job is in a large building of a large international company. There are some very cool installations in this building... they even build some of their own equipment there.
 
Building spec. supersedes code correct? If so is a side note on a print concidered a Spec. On my set of prints word for word it says "G.C. to install central vacum system using 2 " PVC...... E.C to mount vaccum motor above Drop ceiling and stack the other two canisters below. The note then points to a recep..... Would I be ok to hard wire the motor with MC using a switch for disconnect ?
 
We ran into this in a Church remodel. We changed the recpt. boxes to J-boxes and ran MC to boxes mounted in the tile. I just wish that we had a better box beside using a switch box.

feat_item.asp
 
We usually mount a 3/4" plaster ring to a 4"sq. box attached to a T-bar bracket, and use a standard receptacle plate on the face of the tile.
 
LarryFine said:
We usually mount a 3/4" plaster ring to a 4"sq. box attached to a T-bar bracket, and use a standard receptacle plate on the face of the tile.
Click to expand...


We use the same setup. I find a old work box installed in a ceiling tile to be kind of flimsy. I could see someone pulling out the plug and ripping the box right through the tile. I wonder if the tile even provides adequate support for the box.


IMO the concept of not allowing cords above the ceiling stinks. There is more and more equipment used everyday that calls for outlet above the ceiling. Condensate pumps, projector lifts, TV lifts, motorized shades, these things come with a cord and plug from the manufacturer and are designed to be plugged in to a receptacle above the ceiling.
 
ok...from the code to the semi-hypothetical....

A motel owner decides to do his own (or have done locally) wireless internet. He goes to wally-world and get a wireless router that is powered by a wall wart. He has a receptacle placed above the ceiling in the corridor and plugs in his wall wart and wireless router.

Violation?

Alternately, he replaces the lv cable on the wall wart with a piece of plenum rated cable.

Violation?
 
say what ??? ....

say what ??? ....

Jpreverso said:
Building spec. supersedes code correct?
Click to expand...

Since when ... Building specs aren't Code ... I've seen many a spec sheet that proves the author doesn't have the slighest idea what the code says ... m
 
mario said:
Since when ... Building specs aren't Code ... I've seen many a spec sheet that proves the author doesn't have the slighest idea what the code says ... m
Click to expand...

Any one else have a opinion? Maybe I have been tought wrong. Have these prints and specs that you have seen been approved by an engineer?
 
Specs do not supersede or modify codes.

Many times Plan Reviews will find engineering code errors or deficiencies in the contract documents, and even if they are not caught at that level, when they are caught they must be remedied.

A inspector can red tag an installation for design violations as well as he / she can red tag for installation deficiencies.

Roger
 
What about Article4 406.4 (A)

What about Article4 406.4 (A)

This was revised in 2005 and leaves me with the understanding that you cannot have receptacles above the suspended ceiling. Only flush with that ceiling.
 
mshields said:
This was revised in 2005 and leaves me with the understanding that you cannot have receptacles above the suspended ceiling. Only flush with that ceiling.
Click to expand...


I believe they mean if you were to (hypothetically speaking) make a cut out then "shave" back, say, 1/8" of the tile thickness around the cutout which would then make the box recessed or "set back". That would be a violation. However, if the receptacle is above the ceiling it's not "set back".
 
Last edited:
Mike and Vaughn, 406.4(A) is a whole different issue dealing with receptacles that will trim out flush with a finished surface. Receptacles are allowed to be installed behind finishes, be it in an attic, cabinet, under a raised floor, (see graphic below) or even a suspended ceiling (see graphic below again)

The issue here is 400.8, flexible cords above the ceiling is the stopper here, not the receptacle (once again see the graphic below) ;)

1019512720_2.gif


Roger
 
Roger that. (No pun intended)

My explanation, although getting off track from the original post, was for Mike because his post title said "What about Article4 406.4 (A)".
 
Great feedback

Great feedback

Roger - much appreciated. But do I understand correctly that the net effect is still the same. Since you can't plug into a receptacle above a suspended ceiling, there's no point in having one.

Correct?

Thanks,

Mike
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top