Receptacles for RV's

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Craigv

Senior Member
Location
Boyertown, PA, USA
jap said:
Could you not say that about anything that plugs into an outlet that has additional overcurrent protection inside of it as I mentioned before ?

JAP>
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I could, but I won't.

The word "functionally", in the sentence that seems to irritate you, is what makes my statement accurate. I didn't say it was a feeder according to Code. I said when plugged in, they "are functionally feeders". As in, the RV site pedestal is no longer the last OCPD before the final branch circuit overcurrent device, which is the very definition of a feeder. When not plugged in, the site pedestal receptacles are branch circuits. As I've also written previously, I've never said they were feeders for code interpretation purposes.
 
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Adamjamma

Senior Member
Location
Jamaica and london
which is why someone like me gets in so much trouble because in my own mind, they are designed to have breaker panels plugged into them before the power from them is used, so they are feeders... in actuality, they could be used for other stuff, but ...

To me, the outlet boxes in an RV park and the outlet boxes at a Marina are in fact the same basic idea... at least two amperages based upon normal usage of the vehicles that would normally be using them, and using a normalized plug configuration. In Europe you also have two voltage standards to contend with as well... which means that if you are setting up an international marina that you might be expected to actually supply equipment for three voltages and 5 plug configurations, though most boaters that run internationally carry their own conversion equipment rather than expecting it at the docks.
The new codes have been written for Marinas and I have not yet seen them here in Britain but, sections 717 and 721 in my 17th edition guides were not too extreme in detail... think the NEC goes into more details concerning mobile equipment and RVs...lol
 
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Craigv

Senior Member
Location
Boyertown, PA, USA
Adamjamma said:
which is why someone like me gets in so much trouble because in my own mind, they are designed to have breaker panels plugged into them before the power from them is used, so they are feeders... in actuality, they could be used for other stuff, but ...

To me, the outlet boxes in an RV park and the outlet boxes at a Marina are in fact the same basic idea... at least two amperages based upon normal usage of the vehicles that would normally be using them, and using a normalized plug configuration. In Europe you also have two voltage standards to contend with as well... which means that if you are setting up an international marina that you might be expected to actually supply equipment for three voltages and 5 plug configurations, though most boaters that run internationally carry their own conversion equipment rather than expecting it at the docks.
The new codes have been written for Marinas and I have not yet seen them here in Britain but, sections 717 and 721 in my 17th edition guides were not too extreme in detail... think the NEC goes into more details concerning mobile equipment and RVs...lol
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Shore power for marinas and RV parks is functionally (there's that word again..) the same. Marina shore power uses locking plugs as the boats are hopefully moving more than an RV. But the concept and execution are much alike.

As as to the feeder concept, yes the receptacle can be used for "anything". But nobody drags their Kenmore range to a campground and plugs in to cook a roast. At some point we have to be realistic about what's needed in these situations. I'm fine if Code wants it...my state only just moved from 2008 to 2014. If they follow suit with that pace for the next update, I'll be 68 years old and will care very little about this...assuming 'I'm still aerobic and upright by then...;)
 
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Adamjamma

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Location
Jamaica and london
well, at 68 I plan on still looking at the women, swimming occasionally in the ocean and dreaming about sailing around the world... just hopefully while enjoying the party deck of my home in Jamaica rather than struggling to find funds to finish it.. but only another thirteen years away for me...lol...
 
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jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
Craigv said:
I could, but I won't.

The word "functionally", in the sentence that seems to irritate you, is what makes my statement accurate. I didn't say it was a feeder according to Code. I said when plugged in, they "are functionally feeders". As in, the RV site pedestal is no longer the last OCPD before the final branch circuit overcurrent device, which is the very definition of a feeder. When not plugged in, the site pedestal receptacles are branch circuits. As I've also written previously, I've never said they were feeders for code interpretation purposes.
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Yea, but in you put the * over the "are" (*are*) which made that word really stand out and took all of the emphasis off of the "functionally" part. :p

JAP>
 
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Craigv

Senior Member
Location
Boyertown, PA, USA
ptonsparky said:
Wow, have you guys noticed what an absolutely beautiful day it is?
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The gorgeous weather of yesterday left as quickly as it had arrived. My wife is home from a week-long business trip, we're both exhausted and decided to veg in the house. Roseanne reruns are back on TVLand. Just got home from dinner of pizza and lasagna, and are sitting down to coffee and peanut butter pie.

So yes it has been absolutely beautiful...
 
ptonsparky

ptonsparky

Tom
Location
NE (9.06 miles @5.9 Degrees from Winged Horses)
Occupation
EC - retired
Craigv said:
The gorgeous weather of yesterday left as quickly as it had arrived. My wife is home from a week-long business trip, we're both exhausted and decided to veg in the house. Roseanne reruns are back on TVLand. Just got home from dinner of pizza and lasagna, and are sitting down to coffee and peanut butter pie.

So yes it has been absolutely beautiful...
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Peanut butter pie, never heard of it. Pinterest, here I come. :)
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Craigv said:
That's a question for those AHJ's. If interested you could contact them and pose your position.

It should be interesting to see whether 2020 closes the loopholes. GFCI protection on RV receptacles is a rather odd requirement. They *are* functionally feeders, just with plugs.
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GFCI protection on a receptacle other than 15/20 amp 120 volt receptacles has been fairly odd for a long time. Now they decided to throw in a new general requirement but didn't look into other areas of code, but yet sort of shouldn't have to. I'm still sticking with the GFCI requirements in 551 have been redundant before - 210.8 would have already required it.

Craigv said:
551.77(B) Disconnecting Means. A disconnecting switch or circuit breaker shall be provided in the site supply equipment for disconnecting the power supply to the recreational vehicle.
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That would not apply to non RV park application. Looking at definition, I think you could have 100 RV outlets but if not for use by general public it is not a NEC defined RV park, though most would likely use pedestals with overcurrent devices in them anyway.
 
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jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
kwired said:
That would not apply to non RV park application. Looking at definition, I think you could have 100 RV outlets but if not for use by general public it is not a NEC defined RV park, though most would likely use pedestals with overcurrent devices in them anyway.
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I tried to make that point in post #78 but I got shot down. :)

JAP>
 
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Craigv

Senior Member
Location
Boyertown, PA, USA
kwired said:
That would not apply to non RV park application. Looking at definition, I think you could have 100 RV outlets but if not for use by general public it is not a NEC defined RV park, though most would likely use pedestals with overcurrent devices in them anyway.
Click to expand...

jap said:
I tried to make that point in post #78 but I got shot down. :)

JAP>
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Oh boy. Still?

Okay, let's review.

You wrote:

"I would think the biggest shock hazard at the site would be when you go to unplug it from the pedestal."

You did write, "site", which is how NEC describes where RV's are parked at RV parks. So I foolishly thought the context of your concern was when you unplug at an RV park site.

When I responded suggesting you could just shut off the power, you wrote, post # 78:

"Not all Power outlets have the breaker in the outlet itself."

No mention of the particular location of this hypothetical RV receptacle from which you're unplugging. As your prior context was a "site", silly me...I thought we were still in the same context.

And really, putting these attempts to pick nits aside, if you're at an RV park the code requires a disconnect at the site. If you are at your own home or your family or friends have an RV receptacle near the driveway for visitors, there's gonna be a breaker that you can get to...if unplugging really frightens whomever is given the task.
 
J

jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
Craigv said:
Oh boy. Still?

Okay, let's review.

You wrote:

"I would think the biggest shock hazard at the site would be when you go to unplug it from the pedestal."

You did write, "site", which is how NEC describes where RV's are parked at RV parks. So I foolishly thought the context of your concern was when you unplug at an RV park site.

When I responded suggesting you could just shut off the power, you wrote, post # 78:

"Not all Power outlets have the breaker in the outlet itself."

No mention of the particular location of this hypothetical RV receptacle from which you're unplugging. As your prior context was a "site", silly me...I thought we were still in the same context.

And really, putting these attempts to pick nits aside, if you're at an RV park the code requires a disconnect at the site. If you are at your own home or your family or friends have an RV receptacle near the driveway for visitors, there's gonna be a breaker that you can get to...if unplugging really frightens whomever is given the task.
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You were foolish to think I was concerned about unplugging at an RV site so go eat a peanut butter pie and put a cork in it. :)

JAP>

JAP>
 
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jap

Senior Member
Occupation
Electrician
jap said:
You were foolish to think I was concerned about unplugging at an RV site so go eat a peanut butter pie and put a cork in it. :)

JAP>

JAP>
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I'm going to change my stance.

I hope this requirement does include all 30 and 50 amp receptacles. Including receptacle outlets for RV's regardless of where they are installed.

I think it'd be an excellent step towards safety and I'd be all for it.

JAP>
 
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