Reporting the unlicensed.

[growler]

I have reported unpermitted work before and have gotten some satisfaction but I just got off the phone after trying to report an unlicensed GC and I got no place. They were very nice but said there was nothing to be done. If a homeowner is dumb enough to hire an unlicensed GC and agreed to be responsible by getting a homeowner permit then the unlicensed GC is doing nothing wrong ( we are talking major work here, a job that very few homeowners would have the slightest idea how to do unless they are also structural engineers ).


You may think the homeowner has to do the work themselves but I guess not in some areas.

And what really makes me mad is this unlicensed GC was bragging that he normally works as an unlicensed EC.

 

[Tiger Electrical]

Illinois is about the same. I've never heard of licensing and permit requirements being enforced with fines.

 

[wireguy8169]

One job I am on one of the carpenters was telling me on break that he had a few electrical jobs to do over the weekend, I said "nice and casual asked what licsense he held" answer "none" I did not argue with him but politely commented "well what would you do if something happens" his response was nothing to me I am just helping the homeowner. Till those that make the rules enforce the rules there isnt much that can be done I suppose, especially when its legal in the letter of the law. It would be a daunting task to enforce I suppose too..

Sucks for those that follow the rules, but such is life.

 

[satcom]

The reason supporting a contractors assn is a good thing it allows your group voices to be heard by the state lawmakers, no orgination no power

 

[fireryan]

We just started state lisc. here in iowa and it doesnt seem to be being enforced. I know there are many guys still working without a lisence Makes me mad that i pay for a lisence and the guy next to me isnt and nothing is being done about it

 

[LEO2854]

We just started state lisc. here in iowa and it doesnt seem to be being enforced. I know there are many guys still working without a lisence Makes me mad that i pay for a lisence and the guy next to me isnt and nothing is being done about it

we have had licensure here since 1915 and there is still unlicened work going on.
my aunt call the other day because she had pipes leaking in the basement she hired a "handyman"to remoldel her first floor bathroom he does it all
well he cut the pipes for the sink and the shut off valve at the water meter did not close all the way so the water was coming out slow but was flooding the basement he walked out:-?

So she called me to fix it. I said you need a licensed plumber.
so i drove over to see and the valve woul not close i called my plumber he came right out and fixed it in two seconds it seemed like.

Well the handy man not only did plumbing but Electrical too not only did he rough the bath room he did a service upgrade while he was at it from a 60amp fuse box to a 200 amp panel.
no ground rods and he re-used the #10 solid ground wire bonded ahead of the
water meter .
the plumber call the plumbing inspector and i called the electrical inspector and had him come out.

Mr handy man has some rough sea's ahead:grin:

 

[LEO2854]

And the panel he installed was main lug only:-?

 

[fridaymean]

Illinois is about the same. I've never heard of licensing and permit requirements being enforced with fines.

Sure they do. It is up to the permit issuer, the municipalities, or the county.

Chicago, lombard, elmhurst, actually most of the western suburbs will get you.

 

[renosteinke]

There seems to be three very different approaches to how licensing laws are enforced. Which method you prefer is up to you.

One way is for the government to have legions of functionaries prowling about, looking for violations. Checkpoints are set up, 'papers' need to be in order, etc.

A less intrusive variation of this is where someone first complains, then a government functionary is sent out to investigate.

The third method is closer to what has been the norm for us, from the very start. That is, government agencies were pretty much limited to criminal matters, while civil disputes were left to the courts. Licensing laws were not seen as criminal matters. The courts would 'enforce' the licensing laws indirectly, by holding the unlicensed guy responsible for the job, but by not requiring the customer to pay him.

There has been some 'citizen participation' in enforcing these laws. For example, supply houses may refuse to sell to you if you lack the proper license.

Personally, I believe that the unlicensed guys do us some favors. The first is that we get a chance to shine when we go in to clean up their messes. Less obvious is that they help the market work (competition), and give us a reason to keep governmental interference to a minimum (unfair advantage).

That last part is the other half of the OP's complaint: the OP believes he is at a disadvantage because the trunk-slammer does not have to pay all those fees, get all those certifications, have all those business expenses. Unfortunately, the OP errs when he only sees the scofflaw as the problem- and ignores the rules that created the situation in the first place. Indeed, I infer from the OP that he believes that the solution lies in even more governmental involvement. IMO, that's like curing a hangover with a shot of whiskey.

 

[growler]

Licensing laws were not seen as criminal matters.

the OP errs when he only sees the scofflaw as the problem- and ignores the rules that created the situation in the first place. Indeed, I infer from the OP that he believes that the solution lies in even more governmental involvement. IMO, that's like curing a hangover with a shot of whiskey.

I don't know where you get your information but in most states operating a business without a license is a crime and commiting a crime is a criminal matter.

There is a crime being commited ( under state law ) but it would be hard to enforce without all necessary documentaion. If there was a copy of any sort of contract between this unlicensed GC and the homeowner that's all that would be needed. Any type of business card or truck sign would do but these are not available.

Nothing wrong with a shot of whiskey for a hangover ( hair of the dog ). It normally works better with a beer chaser.

 

[satcom]

I don't know where you get your information but in most states operating a business without a license is a crime and commiting a crime is a criminal matter.

There is a crime being commited ( under state law ) but it would be hard to enforce without all necessary documentaion. If there was a copy of any sort of contract between this unlicensed GC and the homeowner that's all that would be needed. Any type of business card or truck sign would do but these are not available.

Nothing wrong with a shot of whiskey for a hangover ( hair of the dog ). It normally works better with a beer chaser.

In my area it is a crime to operate without a license, and they do enforce the law , a few years back we were at a job in town, I had to leave the job site with the truck for just a few minutes, and when I returned the police were there with a city inspector, getting ready to arrest my electricians, the place card fell out of the window, and the inspector assumed the men working were there doing illegal work, he did not see a lettered licensed truck so he proceeded to have the police arrest the crew, once I arrived back with the truck and he found the place card that fell all was well.

In New York they do it a bit different they run sting operations and collect plenty of stiff fines and work trucks.

Sounds like someone is not doing their job, where your located

 

[jsmalone1]

I have said it here before--many places require no license. I managed large electrical projects in the Chicago area and we electricians are not licensed nor are we required to be. In some cities & towns in that area, the contractor must have a license. I maintained an "A" class commercial license just to have it. The reality is that most of my union co-workers could not pass the exam regardless. Where I live now nothing at all is required. The large city nearby requires a license in the city limits but the county only requires a merchant license which is just a fee to pay. I've seen horrible work done just as equally in a union environment versus non-union and licensed versus none required. The residential work here is of much higher quality than the work I saw in the Chicago area. That's non-union here and romex versus union and conduit in Chicago. I get a lot of work here fixing the hacks work.

 

[jsmalone1]

Sure they do. It is up to the permit issuer, the municipalities, or the county.

Chicago, lombard, elmhurst, actually most of the western suburbs will get you.

but the workers almost always don't need a license or anything else for that matter--you can have whomever on the job you like--government requirements for permits, licenses, certifications, and classes guarantees nothing--I speak from experience, understanding full well the benefits of these same requirements, but also understanding the realities.

 

[zappy]

The homeowner will be on Holmes on Homes one day I bet.

 

[gadfly56]

The homeowner will be on Holmes on Homes one day I bet.

Only if they decide to come "south of the border". Right now it's strictly Canadian, eh.

 

[fridaymean]

but the workers almost always don't need a license or anything else for that matter--you can have whomever on the job you like--government requirements for permits, licenses, certifications, and classes guarantees nothing--I speak from experience, understanding full well the benefits of these same requirements, but also understanding the realities.

I think you are talking about two different things. To get a permit, from an ahj which, you need a contractors licence. Workers do no need a licence as the company is the licensee.

I have read of some ahjs that will require anyone working on electrical work in their jurisdiction to take a test.


Everywhere around here requires a contractor to have licence, insurance, and some times a bond. Usually this info needs to be provided with the permit app.

Homeowners are alowed to work on their own property, if it is not larger than a duplex. Some places require homeowners to take a test and/or prove competence.

 

[fridaymean]

I have said it here before--many places require no license. I managed large electrical projects in the Chicago area and we electricians are not licensed nor are we required to be. In some cities & towns in that area, the contractor must have a license. I maintained an "A" class commercial license just to have it. The reality is that most of my union co-workers could not pass the exam regardless. Where I live now nothing at all is required. The large city nearby requires a license in the city limits but the county only requires a merchant license which is just a fee to pay. I've seen horrible work done just as equally in a union environment versus non-union and licensed versus none required. The residential work here is of much higher quality than the work I saw in the Chicago area. That's non-union here and romex versus union and conduit in Chicago. I get a lot of work here fixing the hacks work.

Who issues a "A" class licence?

 

[fridaymean]

I have said it here before--many places require no license. I managed large electrical projects in the Chicago area and we electricians are not licensed nor are we required to be. In some cities & towns in that area, the contractor must have a license. I maintained an "A" class commercial license just to have it. The reality is that most of my union co-workers could not pass the exam regardless. Where I live now nothing at all is required. The large city nearby requires a license in the city limits but the county only requires a merchant license which is just a fee to pay. I've seen horrible work done just as equally in a union environment versus non-union and licensed versus none required. The residential work here is of much higher quality than the work I saw in the Chicago area. That's non-union here and romex versus union and conduit in Chicago. I get a lot of work here fixing the hacks work.

Who issues an "A" class licence?

 

[jsmalone1]

Who issues a "A" class licence?

Downers Grove--Class A, Unlimited--is what they call it. The union electricians in the entire Chicago area are not licensed nor required to be. All that I'm saying is that many areas do not require a license and many areas, like Chicagoland, require licenses yet have a huge loophole, in my opinion, that at times, compromises quality and safety

 

[growler]

Personally, I believe that the unlicensed guys do us some favors. The first is that we get a chance to shine when we go in to clean up their messes. Less obvious is that they help the market work (competition), and give us a reason to keep governmental interference to a minimum (unfair advantage).

These people are not really doing anyone any favors, not even the homeowner. It's the same old flem-flam scam of people thinking they are getting something for nothing and end up getting nothing for something.

If a homeowner enters a contract with a legitimate GC ( one that's been checked out ) they can have a certain amount of security. They can be sure that he/she has a proven track record and that they are insured and are financially sound. These people have an investment in their business.

On the other hand when a homeowner hires "Fred the contractor" on a wink and a nod and agree to pull the permit (homeowner's ) and almost anything goes wrong they are left in a pretty bad situation. They really don't even have much of a legal recourse.

Most people hate government intrusion until they find that they have just been screwed by "Fred" and then they wonder why the authorities don't do something to help the poor innocent homeowner out.

No offense ment to anyone named Fred I was just looking for a common name to use.