Reporting the unlicensed.

[jsmalone1]

These people are not really doing anyone any favors, not even the homeowner. It's the same old flem-flam scam of people thinking they are getting something for nothing and end up getting nothing for something.

If a homeowner enters a contract with a legitimate GC ( one that's been checked out ) they can have a certain amount of security. They can be sure that he/she has a proven track record and that they are insured and are financially sound. These people have an investment in their business.

On the other hand when a homeowner hires "Fred the contractor" on a wink and a nod and agree to pull the permit (homeowner's ) and almost anything goes wrong they are left in a pretty bad situation. They really don't even have much of a legal recourse.

Most people hate government intrusion until they find that they have just been screwed by "Fred" and then they wonder why the authorities don't do something to help the poor innocent homeowner out.

No offense ment to anyone named Fred I was just looking for a common name to use.

I feel the problem is the government incompetence though. You see in Canada, for instance, the level of requirements is far greater than most places in the US yet they have incredible levels of similar problems as we are talking about--back to Holmes on Homes. We could have a long discussion about all this but I believe there is a balance to everything. I saw the union and governmental corruption, firsthand, in Chicago and now here, in southwest Missouri, I see no unions and little or no governmental intrusion---that balance is somewhere in the middle.

 

[adelle]

As long as you can walk into a HD or Lowes and buy everything you need for residential electrical work, there's no way to ever enforce the licensing requirement.

And there are also few commercial supply houses that will refuse a cash sale to spite the big sign that says "To the Trade Only". They put that there only to appease the manufactures who's contracts stipulate not to sell retail.

My personal opinion, if you have to worry about unlicensed hacks hurting your business, you have a problem already.

 

[satcom]

As long as you can walk into a HD or Lowes and buy everything you need for residential electrical work, there's no way to ever enforce the licensing requirement.

And there are also few commercial supply houses that will refuse a cash sale to spite the big sign that says "To the Trade Only". They put that there only to appease the manufactures who's contracts stipulate not to sell retail.

My personal opinion, if you have to worry about unlicensed hacks hurting your business, you have a problem already.

Licensing is not meant to prevent home owners from doing their own work or buying supplies to do the work, licenses are required to protect the consumers, and assure that the licensed electricians are qualified to preform the work.
In many states licensing works well and in inforced, just look at the records of all the fines and penalties each month on various board sites, the guys that say there is no enforcement may not be EC's or just not use to the enforcement process

 

[B W E]

For me personally, I'm grateful for every job I get, whether it's to fix a hack job from a weekender, or to do another job for a satisfied return client I've had for years. Running my business is enough work for me as it is, that I don't have time to track down and tattle on all the unlicensed electricians out there. The truth of the matter is, I'd bet the farm that ALL of us were at one time operating in some way shape or form illegally. Either unlicensed and doing side work on our way up, or our our bond lapsed, or something along those lines. It's almost as lame as pacing cars on the freeway with a video camera and reporting speeders.

I think it also has to be said that just having a license and insurance and a bond does NOT make you qualified. Thats like saying everyone with a driver's license is a good driver.

 

[LEO2854]

For me personally, I'm grateful for every job I get, whether it's to fix a hack job from a weekender, or to do another job for a satisfied return client I've had for years. Running my business is enough work for me as it is, that I don't have time to track down and tattle on all the unlicensed electricians out there. The truth of the matter is, I'd bet the farm that ALL of us were at one time operating in some way shape or form illegally. Either unlicensed and doing side work on our way up, or our our bond lapsed, or something along those lines. It's almost as lame as pacing cars on the freeway with a video camera and reporting speeders.

I think it also has to be said that just having a license and insurance and a bond does NOT make you qualified. Thats like saying everyone with a driver's license is a good driver.

I do no agree. Any one can get a driver's license without much effort as you can see just driving down the road.
An Electrician who lives in a state that has a state wide license system must work a 4 year apprenticship and pass the test based on the NEC and hand's on eperiance. then must go to school again and work at least one more year to get the right to take the master Electrician exam most fail the first time

So there is a gynormass difference between an electrician's license and a drivers license.

"""OH AND ONE MORE THING"""

Welcome to the forum:grin:

 

[electricmanscott]

I do no agree. Any one can get a driver's license without much effort as you can see just driving down the road.
An Electrician who lives in a state that has a state wide license system must work a 4 year apprenticship and pass the test based on the NEC and hand's on eperiance. then must go to school again and work at least one more year to get the right to take the master Electrician exam most fail the first time

So there is a gynormass difference between an electrician's license and a drivers license.

Still doesn't make someone qualified.

 

[growler]

Still doesn't make someone qualified.

What does the word qualified actually mean?

Atricle 100 Qualified person: One who has the skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has recieved safety training on the hazards involved.

That's a great definition of the technical meaning of the word "qualified" provided by the NEC.

Now this question is this, is the NEC the Authority having jurisdiction in this case?

The NEC doesn't have any jurisdiction (power) because the authority rest with the state. The state gets to decide who is qualified and they not only use use a technical definition but also a legal definition of just who is qualified.

You could have great driving abilty and still not be considered qualified to operate a motor vehicle by the state. All sort of legal considerations can keep a person from getting a drivers license.

On the other hand a person can have very limited driving abilty and still be considered qualified to operate a motor vehicle by the state.

The state and local authorities are the only one's with the legal authority to give anyone the right to operate a business so they get to decide who is qualified. Until a lack of competence is proven anyone with the correct licenses is considered qualified because that is the only measure of legal qualifications that we have.

So it is said and so it is written. Hear ye, hear ye.

 

[roger]

Whether or not a license guarantees the individual is capable, qualified, or gives a rats behind about doing quality work is not the issue at hand, it is about a state or regions law requiring a license and if it does, those that are working without one are breaking the law, it's that simple.

IMO, they should be reported, especially in these times when the up and up contractors are starving.

Roger

 

[apollo electric]

There is a company here in Colo. where the person holding the masters liscense for the company does not work for them he just lets the company use his license. The sad part is he is a retired inspector and that is not right, i have been fixing a lot of there work behind them, the guys doing the work hold no license at all. What do you do with that situation?

 

[growler]

There is a company here in Colo. where the person holding the masters liscense for the company does not work for them he just lets the company use his license. The sad part is he is a retired inspector and that is not right, i have been fixing a lot of there work behind them, the guys doing the work hold no license at all. What do you do with that situation?

The first thing to ask is what laws are being broken. Do you know for sure that he is not part owner of the company or an officer of the corporation? Are the guys doing the work required to have a license?

He may have things set up to where they are perfectly legal. If this is a real company they probably have it set up for him to be the license holder but if he is just permiting for them and they are working on the sly that's different. You can look at one of the permits and see if it's pulled in the companies name or if it's pulled under the retired inspectors name.

 

[satcom]

There is a company here in Colo. where the person holding the masters liscense for the company does not work for them he just lets the company use his license. The sad part is he is a retired inspector and that is not right, i have been fixing a lot of there work behind them, the guys doing the work hold no license at all. What do you do with that situation?

Not to worry, we have some guys working here in jersey using licenses of guys that are no longer with us, so unless a situation gets a formal complaint, don't expect any enforcement.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Not to worry, we have some guys working here in jersey using licenses of guys that are no longer with us, so unless a situation gets a formal complaint, don't expect any enforcement.

This use to happen here but Ohio changed that. You can not use other persons license. This applies to commercial only.

 

[growler]

Thats like saying everyone with a driver's license is a good driver.

People keep useing this example to say everyone with a license doesn't know what they are doing and this is correct.

When you get a driver's license it doesn't mean you are a good driver or even a safe driver. It means that so far you have been willing to comply with the law.

What happens to a person that gets a drivers license one day and goes out that night and gets a DUI? Now the person has a driving record? His license will probably be suspended for a time and then they will be given another chance to become a safe driver. Now what happen if this person refuses to comply with the law and keeps on boozing it up and driving? Sooner or later they will lose the right to operate a motor vehicle on the highway.

A license is as much about being able to track performance as anything.

I may not know if a licensed contractor is qualified or not but I can check and see if there have been any complaints filed against them.

What is a good driver anyway? Is it someone that can drive 150 miles an hour while drunk or someone that obeys all traffic laws and has driven a million miles in the last 30 years without an accident or a ticket?

 

[iwire]

1) Having a license does not make someone a qualified person to the NEC or OSHA. (For instance you could be the best classified location conduit guy around and still not have a clue (not qualified) about how to wire a pool)

2) Having a license does not mean the work produced will be good or even be code compliant.


3) However having a license when it is required does mean you are allowed to do electrical work, and those that do not should be reported.

 

[apollo electric]

From what i understand the Colo. law requires the license holder to be actively engaged in the company. That does not mean that the license can be bought out and the person holding the license does not work there, but just holds the license for the company, that is wrong.

 

[nhfire77]

There is a company here in Colo. where the person holding the masters liscense for the company does not work for them he just lets the company use his license. The sad part is he is a retired inspector and that is not right, i have been fixing a lot of there work behind them, the guys doing the work hold no license at all. What do you do with that situation?

Continue to show them up with excellent work and excellent customer service. I'm not saying dont turn them in, but I get called for hack work all the time. The customer hates paying twice, but loves to see me make their problems go away. And I always get a good laugh, too.

 

[apollo electric]

Could not agree more.

 

[Sam Moore]

There is a company here in Colo. where the person holding the masters liscense for the company does not work for them he just lets the company use his license. The sad part is he is a retired inspector and that is not right, i have been fixing a lot of there work behind them, the guys doing the work hold no license at all. What do you do with that situation?

Turn them in and let the state sort it out, if it's legal then no harm and if not still no harm...if it was the other way around they would turn you in...My sister turned me in and I had a license and everything else required by law, I've always told her she doesn't know as much as she thinks...

 

[CopperTone]

One job I am on one of the carpenters was telling me on break that he had a few electrical jobs to do over the weekend, I said "nice and casual asked what licsense he held" answer "none" I did not argue with him but politely commented "well what would you do if something happens" his response was nothing to me I am just helping the homeowner. Till those that make the rules enforce the rules there isnt much that can be done I suppose, especially when its legal in the letter of the law. It would be a daunting task to enforce I suppose too..

Sucks for those that follow the rules, but such is life.

Reading this made me laugh and then I remembered the 2 or 3 calls I've gotten in the past 5 years or so - from a homeowner - "can you come and hook up the wires in the panel that I ran? I am afraid of electricity."

My response " tell me if this sounds like a phone hanging up " - click

 

[wirenuter]

Mean while here in fairfield county ct

Mean while here in fairfield county ct

licsense enforcement? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha aha haha ha ha. Cmon guys stop.