residential home estimating

[ndc81167]

Can anyone give me a good start on how to estimate residential houses,,,
ive been doing mainly all commercial for years and it seems that pricing residential houses in CT would put me out of bussiness very quickly...

is $4.5 a square ft for a code wired house (no extras) seem right?

 

[480sparky]

How many square feet is a breaker good for?

How much wire is in a square foot?

 

[ndc81167]

re

re

iam not sure what you mean,,, the 4.5 a sqft was givin to me by a builder
that said thats what he gets for a price,,,

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Can anyone give me a good start on how to estimate residential houses,,,
ive been doing mainly all commercial for years and it seems that pricing residential houses in CT would put me out of bussiness very quickly...

is $4.5 a square ft for a code wired house (no extras) seem right?

I can't speak for there, but around here, you'll lose alot of bids at $4.50 for a code minimum, installation. Once you get into custom homes, the numbers range from $5.00- $15.00. But if a GC calls and says 1 story, 3 br, 1 bath, nothing fancy, code minimum, 1500 sq ft.. You're not gonna get it at $4.50

 

[480sparky]

iam not sure what you mean,,, the 4.5 a sqft was givin to me by a builder
that said thats what he gets for a price,,,

Unless you're doing nothing but cookie-cutter, bargain basement homes, square foot pricing does not work.

A 200a service costs the same for a 1000 sq. ft. house as it does for a 3000 sq. ft. one. So how do you figure out how much to charge per square foot for the service?

 

[ndc81167]

thank you,,,

 

[mcclary's electrical]

Unless you're doing nothing but cookie-cutter, bargain basement homes, square foot pricing does not work.

A 200a service costs the same for a 1000 sq. ft. house as it does for a 3000 sq. ft. one. So how do you figure out how much to charge per square foot for the service?

When I bid "cookie cutter " homes, as you say, the sq ft price I use includes the service. Once the house is big enough for a 320, I think the sq ft price goes out the window.

 

[ndc81167]

re: for main service

re: for main service

the square foot pricing does not include the main service,, its just the wiring of the house,,, and fixture allowances are seperate as well

 

[jaylectricity]

I've never trusted the sq footage method of estimating. I also have never had an opportunity to bid on a cookie cutter home. My estimates have always been based on what was actually going into the house. I also don't have much competition because almost everybody I work for has already decided they're going to use me. The estimate is mostly just to help them decide what they can and can't afford.

I would likely go gray pretty quick if I had to actually bid jobs against competition. Then again, if I had to bid jobs against competition I would probably be bidding a lot more jobs anyway so I wouldn't have to worry too much about losing one here and there.

Sorry to blog all over your thread.

 

[peter d]

Can anyone give me a good start on how to estimate residential houses,,,
ive been doing mainly all commercial for years and it seems that pricing residential houses in CT would put me out of bussiness very quickly...

About 9 years ago I worked for a new-residential-only-EC in CT doing mostly large custom and semi-custom spec homes. The name of the game was speed and being down and dirty. A 4 man crew would have a whole 3000+ sq foot home boxed, all recessed in, and pulled in one day, and another day to splice everything. Looks and workmanship were not terribly important. It was all about getting it done as fast as possible and cheaply as possible.

New housing must be done with military like discipline and assembly line procedures. Cheap labor doesn't hurt either. If you can't do it fast and cheap, you will not make a penny. It's as simple as that.

 

[CopperTone]

for years I wanted to get into tract home building - well wiring tract homes. I though those guys must make a killing with all those houses right next to each other and all the same - no travel time - how easy. ha ha ha

very little did I know that I will never ever do tract housing. I laugh at companies I see doing it. Most of the time they are from far away places, are companies that no one has ever heard of, and rarely are they the same company that finishes the street that started the street. They get strung out on payment that is too little in the first place and learn too late that they are loosing money - after it is gone. The large GC companies do this on purpose and wait them out to go out of business or dump them when they complain about not charging enough.

For me anyway - I don't want to work for those GC's - now I can smell them coming and I run run run. In my town there is a proposal for 700 new houses - I don't think I'll do one of them.

4 words to think about " pennies on the dollar"

I don't want to hire undocumented workers and baby sit all day and beat them with a whip or have to run all day long on a ladder to make 20 bucks an hour - seriously - screw that.
Then to not even get paid at the end of the month - who needs that PITA.

I await the responses like " maybe someone has figured out an assembly line procedure to wire these houses and makes good money"

My response - "you can have it - I charge more, make more, and work less. See you on the beach. You have to wire 2.5 houses to make the money I make for one house "

 

[mcclary's electrical]

About 9 years ago I worked for a new-residential-only-EC in CT doing mostly large custom and semi-custom spec homes. The name of the game was speed and being down and dirty. A 4 man crew would have a whole 3000+ sq foot home boxed, all recessed in, and pulled in one day, and another day to splice everything. Looks and workmanship were not terribly important. It was all about getting it done as fast as possible and cheaply as possible.

New housing must be done with military like discipline and assembly line procedures. Cheap labor doesn't hurt either. If you can't do it fast and cheap, you will not make a penny. It's as simple as that.

Well said, and with that being said, I enjoy the people who say, there's no money in it. There may not be money in it for them, BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO SLOW. Just because they can't make money at it, doesn't mean I can't. I can rough in, a cut and dry, code minimum 1600 sq ft house, 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, in 24 man hrs. How much does it cost me to fund 24 man hrs before I get a rough in check? Come on, don't tell me there's no money in it.

 

[CopperTone]

Well said, and with that being said, I enjoy the people who say, there's no money in it. There may not be money in it for them, BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO SLOW. Just because they can't make money at it, doesn't mean I can't. I can rough in, a cut and dry, code minimum 1600 sq ft house, 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, in 24 man hrs. How much does it cost me to fund 24 man hrs before I get a rough in check? Come on, don't tell me there's no money in it.

so that is no phones, no cable, no recessed lights, switched outlets, no under cabinet lights, no extra appliances, no garage, 2 pull chains in the basement, no closet lights, bare bones house?

I could rough a house like that in no time as well - I just never have come across one like that. not where I live. They just don't build em like that up here.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Well said, and with that being said, I enjoy the people who say, there's no money in it. There may not be money in it for them, BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO SLOW. Just because they can't make money at it, doesn't mean I can't. I can rough in, a cut and dry, code minimum 1600 sq ft house, 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, in 24 man hrs. How much does it cost me to fund 24 man hrs before I get a rough in check? Come on, don't tell me there's no money in it.

Can you still do that when you are in your 50's, after your arm/wrist burns from the arthritis/carpal? Or after the GC stiffs you for the money?

for years I wanted to get into tract home building - well wiring tract homes. I though those guys must make a killing with all those houses right next to each other and all the same - no travel time - how easy. ha ha ha

very little did I know that I will never ever do tract housing. I laugh at companies I see doing it. Most of the time they are from far away places, are companies that no one has ever heard of, and rarely are they the same company that finishes the street that started the street. They get strung out on payment that is too little in the first place and learn too late that they are loosing money - after it is gone. The large GC companies do this on purpose and wait them out to go out of business or dump them when they complain about not charging enough.

For me anyway - I don't want to work for those GC's - now I can smell them coming and I run run run. In my town there is a proposal for 700 new houses - I don't think I'll do one of them.

4 words to think about " pennies on the dollar"

I don't want to hire undocumented workers and baby sit all day and beat them with a whip or have to run all day long on a ladder to make 20 bucks an hour - seriously - screw that.
Then to not even get paid at the end of the month - who needs that PITA.

I await the responses like " maybe someone has figured out an assembly line procedure to wire these houses and makes good money"

My response - "you can have it - I charge more, make more, and work less. See you on the beach. You have to wire 2.5 houses to make the money I make for one house "

Dad got fired from a developer back in the early 60's, was told "you're making too much money from me"...They were shysters back then, as well as now. Dad would hit every crackerbox house with 5-6 men, experienced plumbers/heating guys, roughed in a house in less than 1/2 the time of his competitors, used prefabbed methods, was ahead of his time. After the recessions of the 70's-80's, the chintzes ruled...Price a job by the s.f., or in my case, by each fixture/or by the ton? Go thhru this phase of your life, and after you see how little money you make, specialize in something that pays....not a sermon, justa thought.

 

[satcom]

iam not sure what you mean,,, the 4.5 a sqft was givin to me by a builder
that said thats what he gets for a price,,,

Yes, back i the 50's when the tract housing boom started, some GC's Got a brain storm and thought they could control the trade pricing, by establishing a square ft price on labor, and it works to some degree with sq ft material, electrical and mechanical, work is not estimated by the square. Units or assemblies are used for estimating.

 

[Ohmy]

Can you still do that when you are in your 50's, after your arm/wrist burns from the arthritis/carpal? Or after the GC stiffs you for the money?



Dad got fired from a developer back in the early 60's, was told "you're making too much money from me"...They were shysters back then, as well as now. Dad would hit every crackerbox house with 5-6 men, experienced plumbers/heating guys, roughed in a house in less than 1/2 the time of his competitors, used prefabbed methods, was ahead of his time. After the recessions of the 70's-80's, the chintzes ruled...Price a job by the s.f., or in my case, by each fixture/or by the ton? Go thhru this phase of your life, and after you see how little money you make, specialize in something that pays....not a sermon, justa thought.

We made great money doing new construction work right up until the end (we did get stuck with thousands of dollars in unpaid invoices). Its a low cost low margin game but it can be very profitable. There is a big difference between cheap and unprofitable. Just ask taco bell.

 

[Article 90.1]

It pains me to read on here how fast everyone thinks they are. You might be, and you might beat me on speed, but I play a different game, I bill for skill and quality. Guess what? When you do quality work and not play, "who can do it fastest," you'll be happier, work more safely, and make more profit for less effort.

To the OP, square foot pricing is good for one thing, and one thing only; it should be an internal number that you use to measure the results of one project against similar projects. The thing that no one tells you with The square foot race to the bottom method of bidding work is that there is a SF price for the rough, a SF price for the trim, and a SF price for the service, and a price list for extra's. GC's think they love having subs compete using SF figures, but what they don't know, or don't get, is they are only comparing dollar amounts, and not what will actually end up inside the box they are building. How about this instead, you are going to get x 15 amp TR duplex receptacles with white nylon cover plates in bedroom 1, xx 15 amp TR duplex receptacles in the dining room on a 20 amp 120 volt circuit. A 200 amp 40 ckt. Square D panel. and all of this (rough service, trim) is going to cost you $XX,XXX. Now Mr. GC you can see exactly what I'm including and exactly what it will cost you. And, oh yeah, the payments will be 30% to start the rough, 40% Upon the completion of the rough, and the remaining balance upon completion. (make up your own draw percentages) Besides, who measures the square footage, is it the inside of the walls, the foot print, do basements count? Fabric, my friends is sold by the square foot (yard actually) houses are sold by what they are made of, what is inside of them, and where they are. Get it? I'm in an off mood tonight, can you tell?

And if at all possible, work direct for the homeowner, who really needs a GC?

 

[staticcontrol]

Well said Article 90.1 This rat rate BS is old. About 99% of the tradesman I know run around like headless chickens and there burnt out by 1 pm. I keep my speed at a decent click but I try to work within my boundry's and maintain a system i call "economy in motion"

It's as perfect as I'll get while working and being productive. Everyone should chill and have a good day at work. One thing I have learned is that there are two types of GC's

1st-the one you have a relationship with and wants you to work for him. He'll add some money on the end for him. Perfect!!!! He gets you the work so he should be compensated. Everyone wins!!!!
2nd- THE WORST!!!! A GC who pimps out our work. HE has no one he counts on. HE puts up for bid every job he comes accross and looks for the lowest number. But,,,,,,he sold it at the highest cost to the customer,pocketing all your profit,sweat and expertise.
So if you settle to charge the GC $45 per outlet, he sold it to customer at $85 an outlet or what ever. It's not like he discloses this info to them anyway.

It's simple to see who's a team player and who's a cheat

 

[TobyD]

Residential home estimating

Residential home estimating

I prefer to price by the outlet.Many times I've tried to figure a sq.ft. avg.It seems to always be a waste of time if you are going to do custom homes to try and give a price by the foot.

When I price a new home I include all the labor and material with the exception of the decorative lights and appliances.I hate to say it but I install according to the local code as so far as the code cycle year is concerned.In a couple areas we are still in the 2005 and a place or two they are in the 2002.If you don't price accordingly you'll probably loose the job.But after you win the bid you need to inform the customer of some of the positive additions of the latest code.Lot's of times they'll work with you and you can make up the difference when the agree to abide by the latest code.
For instance when I dip into TN. they have a state rules and regulations in addition to the NEC.So, this actually is a good thing. Sometimes you have a electrician that has the owner pull his permit and then he can do the job without liability insc. or workmanscomp.This happens alot in the rural areas in TN and some of the surrounding areas where I'm from.

 

[quinn77]

i live in south texas...plenty of undocumented, illegal, and unlicensed "wireman" to go around. here a resi journeyman is lucky to pull 13.00 an hour, and he's just the e.c.'s you know what. while his work might work the first time who cares, it took him a tad longer, that means money lost and the rough check not in the mail. he'll be back later to fix it...after rough in check has arrived...
we fix these "mop ups" all the time at my company. we are more expensive than most on resi, however we give a 5 year warranty on most new work. there are customers who want quality and value and there are those who want it at cut rate. E.C is a CRAFT! let your work speak for itself.

quinn