Romex in a Commercial building

[StreamlineGT]

on the top of floor joists? wont it be in the way of the flooring?

sorry, ceiling rafters....

 

[ultramegabob]

I dont know if there is anything against code to use staples for MC cable, but I normally use jiffy clips.

 

[brantmacga]

Code is minimum standard. . A true professional doesn't look to build to minimum. . At times there isn't a good reason to build above minimum [ex: why would anyone daisychain a short 120v/20a plug circuit in 10gauge]. . At other times exceeding the minimum is the mark of quality and professional installation.

Defining the code minimum can be hard. . Determining when to exceed it can sometimes be even harder.

you sound like the inspector who tried to fail me for using #14 romex because his "local code" prohibited it (after citing state law that overruled him and forced the job to be passed).

nothing wrong with being a quality craftsmen, but when given the choice of a mercedes and a hyundai, a lot of folks want the mercedes but can only afford the hyundai. I give the customer the best they can afford, and sometimes that's just the minimum. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[iwire]

Nothing wrong with being a quality craftsmen, but when given the choice of a Mercedes and a Hyundai, a lot of folks want the Mercedes but can only afford the Hyundai. I give the customer the best they can afford, and sometimes that's just the minimum. Nothing wrong with that.

I agree 100% and will add that I think it is wrong to spend the customers money just to please are own sense of craftsmanship.

Keeping with the car analogy it is like a person buying a basic model all the while the salesman keeps trying to add extras.

 

[iwire]

A true professional doesn't look to build to minimum. .

That is simply not true at all.

IMO a professional does the job the customer is paying for, if the customer wants a code minimum job there is nothing unprofessional about providing it.

Or are you saying that the NEC minimums result in an unsafe installation?

 

[dnem]

Or are you saying that the NEC minimums result in an unsafe installation?

If it was unsafe it wouldn't meet code minimum [theoretically]. . Building to minimum might be safe but safe isn't the same thing as professional.

Do you run your raceways between terminations "as the crow flys" ? . Do you install diagonally to save a few feet of wire ? . NEC allows you to do that. . It meets code minimum to do that but its not professional.

Like I said before
At times there isn't a good reason to build above minimum [ex: why would anyone daisychain a short 120v/20a plug circuit in 10gauge]. . At other times exceeding the minimum is the mark of quality and professional installation. . Defining the code minimum can be hard. . Determining when to exceed it can sometimes be even harder.

 

[wasasparky]

Building to minimum might be safe but safe isn't the same thing as professional.

You've got to be kidding.

So if safe isn't the same as professional
Then unsafe isn't the same as unprofessional?

 

[romeo]

Romex in a Commercial building

Regardless of the inspectors lack of carrying I would break out the MC in those situations. No matter what the inspector lets you do it is still a violation with your name on it until it is removed.

I see no reason to put my neck out to save the customer the cost difference between NM and MC. :smile:

I agree, I feel that the electrician is responsible for providing a code compliant installation,regardless of what the inspector allows.

My question is who is responsible,if a violation causes serious injury or even death, the electrician or the inspector? I think that both would be.

 

[dnem]

You've got to be kidding.

No I'm not

So if safe isn't the same as professional

Correct

Then unsafe isn't the same as unprofessional?

Everything unsafe is also unprofessional. . But unsafe is only one category that can make an installation unprofessional.

Now you answer a few of my questions

Do you run raceways or cables diagonally [high to low, low to high] in stud walls ?
Do you consider diagonal runs to be NEC compliant ?
Do you consider diagonal runs to be safe ?
Do you consider diagonal runs to be professional ?

 

[dnem]

My question is who is responsible,if a violation causes serious injury or even death, the electrician or the inspector? I think that both would be.

That's correct and the courts have made rulings that prove it to be true in specific court cases.

 

[peter d]

Building to minimum might be safe but safe isn't the same thing as professional.

Do you run your raceways between terminations "as the crow flys" ? . Do you install diagonally to save a few feet of wire ? . NEC allows you to do that. . It meets code minimum to do that but its not professional.

Pull out a ceiling tile in just about any commercial occupancy around here and you will see lots of cable and even pipe running as the crow flies. Heck, I have run lots of MC cable myself as the crow flies. But I guess that I'm not a professional because I did it that way...the companies I worked for aren't professional either....I should have squared everything off just so I could pat myself on the back. :roll:

 

[stickboy1375]

I should have squared everything off just so I could pat myself on the back. :roll:

Now you can finally be a professional!!! :grin: :grin: :grin:

 

[stickboy1375]

Do you run your raceways between terminations "as the crow flys" ? . Do you install diagonally to save a few feet of wire ? . NEC allows you to do that. . It meets code minimum to do that but its not professional.

Your opinion is absurd.

 

[peter d]

Now you can finally be a professional!!! :grin: :grin: :grin:

Too primitive...next time I'm going to run all my cable with a laser line.

 

[iwire]

If it was unsafe it wouldn't meet code minimum [theoretically]. . Building to minimum might be safe but safe isn't the same thing as professional.

Your wrong, no other way to put it. Professionals can install per code minimum.

I can also work far beyond code if that is what the customer desires.

The customer is the one spending the money, anything beyond code compliance is up to the customer.

Do you run your raceways between terminations "as the crow flys" ? . Do you install diagonally to save a few feet of wire ? . NEC allows you to do that. .

Sure I do, if that make sense for the job and the customer.

I often work in stores that are very large if the electric room is in one corner and the load is in the other it makes no sense electrically to add to the circuit length for no other reason then to keep the circuit perpendicular to the building. To do so is wasteful and foolish.

 

[stickboy1375]

Too primitive...next time I'm going to run all my cable with a laser line.

Cool... I dont want you to be a hack, and I know you have it in you to be a professional even if you cost the company millions of dollars running your wires straight as an arrow...

 

[iwire]

Do you run raceways or cables diagonally [high to low, low to high] in stud walls ?

Sure, if it makes sense for the job at hand and certainly if it will be concealed by wall finish.

Do you consider diagonal runs to be NEC compliant ?

Yes

Do you consider diagonal runs to be safe ?

Yes, assuming it is otherwise code compliant.

Do you consider diagonal runs to be professional ?

Absolutely depending on the specific job conditions and requirements.

 

[JohnE]

While I was stringing MC diagonally I was wondering why everyone considered diagonal runs of romex to be hack, but they didn't think the same thing about MC. Now I know they do.

 

[Flex]

If it was unsafe it wouldn't meet code minimum [theoretically]. . Building to minimum might be safe but safe isn't the same thing as professional.

Do you run your raceways between terminations "as the crow flys" ? . Do you install diagonally to save a few feet of wire ? . NEC allows you to do that. . It meets code minimum to do that but its not professional.

Like I said before
At times there isn't a good reason to build above minimum [ex: why would anyone daisychain a short 120v/20a plug circuit in 10gauge]. . At other times exceeding the minimum is the mark of quality and professional installation. . Defining the code minimum can be hard. . Determining when to exceed it can sometimes be even harder.

Im with you man. My name isnt on the codebook but it is on my work. They put all that time into that book to make what we do safe as possible and I respect that. Dont mean im gonna hide behind the code and say good enough.

 

[peter d]

Im with you man. My name isnt on the codebook but it is on my work. They put all that time into that book to make what we do safe as possible and I respect that. Dont mean im gonna hide behind the code and say good enough.

I suspect that if you even own or run a business your perspective on this issue will change. Until then, you are just patting yourself on the back.