Romex in a Commercial building

[roger]

Now you answer a few of my questions

Do you run raceways or cables diagonally [high to low, low to high] in stud walls ?
Do you consider diagonal runs to be NEC compliant ?
Do you consider diagonal runs to be safe ?
Do you consider diagonal runs to be professional ?

I know you weren't asking me but I will answer, Yes to all of the above, and you couldn't red tag an installation for any of the above so what's the point of the questions?

Roger

 

[iwire]

Im with you man. My name isnt on the codebook but it is on my work.

You name is also not on the bank account paying for the work.

Dont mean im gonna hide behind the code and say good enough.

No one is hiding behind a code book and I hate to burst your bubble but even you wire to code minimums all the time.

Do you ever run 12 AWG for 20 amp circuits?

Do you ever install just one wall switch in a bedroom?

Do you ever install just one 20 amp receptacle circuit to a bathroom?

Do you only use a 100 amp rated panel at the end of a 100 amp feeder?

If your needlessly spending more of the customers money then they would like only to please your own sense of what is right then in my opinion you are ripping the customer off.

 

[JohnE]

Im with you man. My name isnt on the codebook but it is on my work. They put all that time into that book to make what we do safe as possible and I respect that. Dont mean im gonna hide behind the code and say good enough.

But your opinion of quality is only worth what any one customer is willing to pay for it.:roll: You could always improve your mc installation by doing it in emt. Or IMC. Or rigid.

You think an install is shoddy if it is run diagonally. Someone else feels it uses less product so is "better". Some arguments have no right answer.

 

[Flex]

Again poor quality work gets you fired from my company. My boss makes money without any problems. Ill tell him to write a book on how to make money without cutting corners. I dont pat myself on the back he does it with a fat check every wednesday.

 

[roger]

Again poor quality work gets you fired from my company.

What does that sentence have to do with this thread?

Roger

 

[Flex]

Do you ever run 12 AWG for 20 amp circuits?

Do you ever install just one wall switch in a bedroom?

Do you ever install just one 20 amp receptacle circuit to a bathroom?

Do you only use a 100 amp rated panel at the end of a 100 amp feeder?

.

None of which look like crap. But tye wraped pipe and wire as the crow flies does. Of course in my opinion.

 

[Flex]

What does that sentence have to do with this thread?

Roger

Just as much as some of the other stuff being posted. But i get your point.

 

[roger]

None of which look like crap. But tye wraped pipe and wire as the crow flies does. Of course in my opinion.

So looks make things safe or unsafe?

Roger

 

[wirebender]

And don't forget the underground installations.

They should all be at least twice the minimum burial depth and follow the building lines when under a slab. :roll:

If outside the building they need to run perfectly north/south or east/west. :roll:

Just because it is covered with dirt (or sheetrock,etc.) doesn't mean we can do sloppy (unprofessional) work.:roll:

I always try to use as much material as possible in any installation. :roll:

Conservation is for hacks.:roll:

 

[Flex]

So looks make things safe or unsafe?

Roger

Looks have nothing to do with safety didnt you know that. Im not questioning the codebook at all. Im just dont get why people get bashed for being able to afford to go above and beyond.

 

[peter d]

None of which look like crap. But tye wraped pipe and wire as the crow flies does. Of course in my opinion.

Well that's fine and dandy, those of use who are wise enough to recognize when it's ok to save money by running cables as the crow flies will continue to do so.

 

[iwire]

None of which look like crap. But tye wraped pipe and wire as the crow flies does. Of course in my opinion.

So now the problem is not code minimums but what you have decided looks bad. Kind of flip flopping here.:grin:

So again I point out that it is not your money to give away.

You and your boss want to give work away just so you can feel warm and fuzzy inside go for it. Me I work to the level the customer pays for.

I have never heard of anyone going to a Kia dealership and coming out with a Lexus for the price of Kia just because the dealership wants go beyond the minimums. :wink:

 

[wirebender]

Im just dont get why people get bashed for being able to afford to go above and beyond.

Maybe because they were bashing others first by calling their work unprofessional and implying that they are hiding behind the code book just because they know how to conserve material and help keep prices down.

 

[Flex]

Well that's fine and dandy, those of use who are wise enough to recognize when it's ok to save money by running cables as the crow flies will continue to do so.

dont forget its safer cause you reduce voltage drop:roll:

 

[peter d]

Im just dont get why people get bashed for being able to afford to go above and beyond.

For the sake of argument:

You have two jobs to do. Same exact circumstances. One has a budget of $1000, and the other has a budget of $700. Are you telling me you are going to do both jobs the exact same way? You will not try to use "code minimum" to your advantage when doing the job that costs $700?

No one is "bashing" anyone who can afford to go above the code. We are simply saying it's totally foolish to provide more than code minimum to a customer who is not paying for it. And you are a fool if you apply the same standard level of quality to each and every job regardless of cost, just so you can deceive yourself into thinking you are doing better work.

 

[peter d]

dont forget its safer cause you reduce voltage drop:roll:

Why the rolleyes? Reducing voltage drop is REAL benefit of reducing circuit length.

 

[iwire]

Im just dont get why people get bashed for being able to afford to go above and beyond.

That is not happening, you came in here bashing people for working to code minimums. Of course your going to get some grief.

I bet everyone of use here would like to use all the best material and have all the time in the world to make every job artwork. But that is not realistic, not all customers are willing to pay for that.

 

[Flex]

So now the problem is not code minimums but what you have decided looks bad. Kind of flip flopping here.:grin:

Nope always had a problem with looks

So again I point out that it is not your money to give away.

If my boss okays it then it must be huh

You and your boss want to give work away just so you can feel warm and fuzzy inside go for it. Me I work to the level the customer pays for.

Why does everything end up with something about how you do things.


I have never heard of anyone going to a Kia dealership and coming out with a Lexus for the price of Kia just because the dealership wants go beyond the minimums.

Ive never seen anyone go into a Kia dealership. Lexus builds a higher quality vehicle that people are willing to pay for. Kias are safe though:roll:





My quote ability is not NEC compliant

 

[Flex]

And you are a fool if you apply the same standard level of quality to each and every job regardless of cost, just so you can deceive yourself into thinking you are doing better work.

Namecalling is not necessary.

 

[JohnE]

That is not happening, you came in here bashing people for working to code minimums. Of course your going to get some grief.

I bet everyone of use here would like to use all the best material and have all the time in the world to make every job artwork. But that is not realistic, not all customers are willing to pay for that.

Lets break it down to a more simple scenario. Who says that running mc or conduit at right angles is "better" than diagonal? You say yes, i say no, who's right. Arguments like this is what keeps me from being more involved here.

I think you and I are on the same page, I'm just trying to illustrate a point.