I don't know if I'm in the right forum for this question, but can people give me some tips and advice on running a larger job? It's approximately 4 months long and about 20 journeyman on site. It's a bid job so I want to meet or exceed their profit margin expectations and also make sure the communication and interaction with the other trades is what it needs to be in order to be successful on a job like this. As far as the scope of the work it's pretty straight forward and nothing too tricky. Running Utility underground and setting Switchgear and running Services and Panels throughout a new building for manufacturing. What trades take precedence over electrical and how do I keep this many men organized and staying productive? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Running Larger Job?
- Thread starter stephena
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If this is a job coming out of the ground, you usually don't need full manpower to begin with as there's not enough that can be done to keep that many electricians busy. If the planners (MEP) haven't set up a timetable for electrical work, then you should. Perhaps they have a general timetable you can elaborate on. Break it down to what should be done each week. This will give you a rough idea of the manpower you need on site.
No trade really has preference... but it depends on what kind of preference you are talking about. There are some things that go smoother if you get your runs in before other trades, such as HVAC... but you don't want to be installing runs where they HAVE TO install their ducts Some of your work has to be done before other trades can complete their part, such as under slab work. Then some work you'll have to wait for other trades to do their work. Don't want to be working where other trades "must" work, unless you too have "must" get done work Get with other trade managers and coordinate (do this in conjunction with your timetable).
The only other aspect I can think of off hand is making sure you have materials, equipment, tooling on site when, if not before you need it.
No trade really has preference... but it depends on what kind of preference you are talking about. There are some things that go smoother if you get your runs in before other trades, such as HVAC... but you don't want to be installing runs where they HAVE TO install their ducts Some of your work has to be done before other trades can complete their part, such as under slab work. Then some work you'll have to wait for other trades to do their work. Don't want to be working where other trades "must" work, unless you too have "must" get done work Get with other trade managers and coordinate (do this in conjunction with your timetable).
The only other aspect I can think of off hand is making sure you have materials, equipment, tooling on site when, if not before you need it.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
ask for the primavera file to see the schedule, and what it's like. you need to know
where they built unachievable goals into the plan. float days are critical. how many
do you have, and what are liquidated damages for impeding the critical path.
you can have things built into the schedule that make turning a profit impossible.
sometimes that isn't an accident.
straight multiplication puts your man hours at about 13,000, but that is 20 guys nonstop.
something like that will probably start with 4~6 journeymen, ramp up, and taper off.
how are you going to man it? ibew or craigs list? huge difference in strategy.
having staffing handled by a call to the hall makes it a ton easier than "interviewing".
unless the book is empty, and then your life will suck when the canasta club shows up,
and makes a chew toy out of your profit and loss statement.
the way stuff goes in this size range, you normally start with a few guys, add a foreman
when you get to about ten, add a second foreman when you get near 20, and you end
up with two full crews, and a few guys you manage yourself. if it's a fugly job, or a fast
track, you'd have three foremen under you, you'd be doing only a GF's job, and probably have
a good scheduler working the logistics so the material shows up and is staged where it needs to
be, when it needs to be there.
I always look to see what conduits I can get in the ground. The more in the ground the more money that goes into your pocket. As soon as foundations and the underground plumbing are laid out I start conduit runs. Remember PVC underground can go in a straight line point to point. Super fast way of getting branch conduit and feeders done. Just think if you have 25' high ceilings and you want to run overhead. Lift, extra bends, j boxes, run parallel to the building construction and plum, set up racks that's a lot of work.
You have to have the mindset of you can do anything. Do not dwell on setbacks but look how to correct and move forward. 20 men is not a big workforce not sure how you set your crews up or if you have foreman to help drive the job. the big thing is if you see a few guys getting a little chatty you want to break them up. If your running this job you should know how long it takes to do a certain task. If you have a crew that is taking longer to do a certain job you might want to move them to another task. And then if you have a crew that is cranking out the work you want to keep them there.
As for who takes precedent for a trade it is usually done with coordination drawings. Sprinkler system typically is first as they need to provide coverage and maintain a pitch to their piping. This is followed by plumbing as it needs to maintain pitch for drainage, HVAC as they need to hit certain points to provide for grilles, VAV boxes and such and due to the size of some of the duct-work. Then the best trade moves in to avoid all the crap that is there. That's not to say that we cannot have items moved if we need to be in a certain place.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
This is one of those, "if you have to ask the price you can't afford it" scenarios. If you have to ask how to run a big job, then turn the big job over to someone who doesn't have to ask. That's the general rule of thumb. Generally, when you don't have to ask how to get something done, you're ready to go.
:happysad:
Companies would have to jump in with the big dogs or stay on the porch, so to speak, if they all applied that rule of thumb. None would ever grow into taking on the big jobs.
But it does help to have some experienced help within the company.
Fulthrotl
~Autocorrect is My Worst Enema.~
- Occupation
- E
usually, tho.... you get to make a pass or two with training wheels on, as a foreman
on a larger job, and working on larger jobs, before getting dumped in the bin for a spin.
i did on site detailing for what i believe is still the largest hospital in calif. getting to watch
up close how it unfolded was an education. there was an on site primavera driver, as they
new profit and loss would be decided in court after it was all done. i learned a lot there,
from some big dogs.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Exactly - and usually after an impatient period where you're convinced you can do the job better than the old hand that's already been doing it before you. That confidence is usually a prerequisite or else the crew will eat you up and spit you out.
Asking for tips and advice is not a lack of confidence sign if you've never done it before. I generally try to be prepared as best I can for something I've never done... and there has been plenty of that. So are you guys naturals or are you now on the other side of that coin and just inclined to be condescending pricks? IMO, someone that has natural confidence rarely has to talk about it.
BTW, I was referring to companies... not the on-site manager, be it senior general foreman, general foreman, foreman, or just plain ol' electrician. Companies typically have their favorites in these positions and they are not necessarily the most qualified. Even the hall will make favorites recommendations to outside contractors for personnel to fill those positions.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
If you've never run a job with more than two guys, never been a lead on a job with 20 guys, and are being thrown in charge of a job with 20 guys, you are probably either being fed to the wolves or are brimming with confidence and firm in a conviction that you can do it. I'd hate to think someone is throwing this nice fella to the wolves.
No, I was worked up to where I am more or less gradually over time - not dropped in without a parachute. It was not my intention to come off as condescending.
Exactly, which was where my "impatience" remark earlier stemmed from.
qcroanoke
Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
- Location
- Roanoke, VA.
- Occupation
- Sorta retired........
Ok, I understand that, cause you sure did.
I thought when I read it that it was kinda rude, especially coming from you.
macmikeman
Senior Member
- Location
- Planet macmikeman
As far as establishing importance to the other trades just remember who controls the temp power on the job............
donaldelectrician
Senior Member
I have run 20 guys , beginning of my 3rd year , no one can tell you when you are ready for it .
You are or you are not .
The difference in Profit will be largely on you . How smooth it goes wil be you also .
The only advice is to Know the Prints , " m " specs are critical ,
establish your zones . Don't have to move anything , with out a change order .
good layout days in advance will do wonders ... Get to know everyone , a case of beer for a Lift ... Cabeshe
The experience will further your carer way forward .... READY FOR IT .
Don
You are or you are not .
The difference in Profit will be largely on you . How smooth it goes wil be you also .
The only advice is to Know the Prints , " m " specs are critical ,
establish your zones . Don't have to move anything , with out a change order .
good layout days in advance will do wonders ... Get to know everyone , a case of beer for a Lift ... Cabeshe
The experience will further your carer way forward .... READY FOR IT .
Don
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five.five-six
Senior Member
- Location
- california
I have run 15 guys, for me the biggest problem was solved when I learned to leave my tools at home.
donaldelectrician
Senior Member
Here is a little fun .
T am not one of those guys runng wtth the prints every second .
I will have a yellow lined pad with scribles and lines telling me exactly what is needed where .
All home runs ...pipe runs ...to each area .
All duct loco's , any important stuff right in front of me . I will not be looking up anything on the spot .
Don
T am not one of those guys runng wtth the prints every second .
I will have a yellow lined pad with scribles and lines telling me exactly what is needed where .
All home runs ...pipe runs ...to each area .
All duct loco's , any important stuff right in front of me . I will not be looking up anything on the spot .
Don
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
A few thoughts: organization is key, having the right materials set up so that they can be easily accessed without wasting man-hours saves money, larger rolling shelves are great. We also use Rubbermaid carts loaded with material so that the stuff can be moved from one area to another as the installers move around. Same goes for tools and ladders, forcing guys to walk around looking for tools or ladders and sharing them can be a bottom line killer. It's human nature while they're wandering around looking for stuff to stop and talk to someone which keeps the other guy(s) from working too.
And use technology when you can. Upload the entire job to your smart phone or better yet, carry a tablet so that you can answer questions right on the spot without having to go back to the field office or trailer every time someone asks a question.
Establish in the very beginning what you'll tolerate about guys coming in late (is a few minutes OK) and slipping out early or taking extra time at lunch. Once the horses have left the barn it's hard to get them back in.
And use technology when you can. Upload the entire job to your smart phone or better yet, carry a tablet so that you can answer questions right on the spot without having to go back to the field office or trailer every time someone asks a question.
Establish in the very beginning what you'll tolerate about guys coming in late (is a few minutes OK) and slipping out early or taking extra time at lunch. Once the horses have left the barn it's hard to get them back in.
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