Smoking

[roger]

This whole thread is the biggest crock of bull I have ever read.A happy worker is the best worker.If they smoke do you think that by telling them they can`t smoke on your job or in your truck that you will get the best that they can do from hour to hour ???

Allen, when a facility that pays us millions of dollars a year has a policy of no tobacco our employees will abide by the rules or be fired, this is non negotiable.

If an employee gets a "not happy" attitude about working in one of these facilities and decides to slow down productivity just to "show us", they will be fired, this is also non negotiable.

When a person is off the clock they can do as they please, but they will abide by our rules for the 480 minutes a day we are paying them, this is also non negotiable.

The simple fact is, a contractors customer is the life of the business and we will cater to them.

The contractor also has the right to set his rules.

We have a situation at our shop as we speak about people smoking in the warehouse and others complaining about it, the solution is going to be to make the warehouse a non smoking area and it will be implemented soon.


Roger

 

[emahler]

I smoke a lot more at home. But, when I was installing, I still ran circles around my guys.

Edit for spelling.

funny part is, your guys used to complain that you never got anything done, and just spent the day running in circles around them. slowing them down in the process

 

[Smart $]

... it is against OSHA rules to smoke inside on a construction site. (enacted to guard against fires I think). It is also against OSHA (or at least MOSHA) rules to smoke in work vehicles where you are alone or not.

Are you certain your statements quoted above are in fact true? If so, can you please direct me to the appropriate OSHA regulation?

TTBOMK, there is only one OSHA regulation which bans smoking indoors, and that is when asbestos has been detected in the environmental air of the building. Another ban is localized to areas which flammable vapors are known or likely to be present. Elsewhere, please read this OSHA interpretation.

 

[iwire]

I can not think of a single GC we work for that allows smoking on the inside of a construction site.

 

[Smart $]

I can not think of a single GC we work for that allows smoking on the inside of a construction site.

That's a matter of policy, not OSHA regulation. In some states, such a policy is illegal. Unfortunately, as a so-called "heavy smoker", it is not illegal in the State of Ohio, where I reside and generally work.

 

[dduffee260]

Wow what a thread ! I personally do not smoke, my wife smokes quite a bit. That is my thoughts though and she thinks she hardly smokes. My wife is a licensed master electrician in Texas. She put in her time just like everyone else. She just finished a 50,000 sq ft hotel. At first she smoked, then when the signs went up she respected that.
I have had one complaint in 15 years from a homeowner about an electrician who smoked in her house. Honestly I think she would have complained about anything, she was a naggy woman.
I honestly hope that someday the government weens out tobacco. Why is it they outlaw something that may kill 8 people out of several million, such as ephedra or however that stuff was spelled, but tobacco kills millions, but they allow you to make the choice?
I remember a sticker a while back that read : " Smoking cigarettes is you pleasure, the residue from your pleasure is smoke. Smoke gets into my clothes, my hair, and in my eyes. Drinking beer is my pleasure. The residue from my pleasure is pee. How you you like it if I peed on your clothes, in your hair and in your eyes?" The actual word was not peed but I had to clean it up a little. But you get the picture.
Being that I really do not care if an employee smokes, as long as they perform. If they don't perform, smoker or not, they are history.
Guys, please don't tell my wife that I spend time on this forum. She thinks I am actually at work most of the time.

 

[iwire]

That's a matter of policy, not OSHA regulation.

I never said or implied OSHA had anything to do with this topic.

In some states, such a policy is illegal.

Are you suggesting that there are states that would prohibit a GC from banning job site smoking?

If so could you provide a reference?

 

[George Stolz]

Bob, Rich brought OSHA into the discussion on the last page.

First, it is against OSHA rules to smoke inside on a construction site. (enacted to guard against fires I think).

Edit: I didn't notice Smart quoted you in his post, sorry.

We have a situation at our shop as we speak about people smoking in the warehouse and others complaining about it, the solution is going to be to make the warehouse a non smoking area and it will be implemented soon.

I have to admit, it startled me a bit to see guys smoking in the warehouse at the shop at my new job. Obviously, as a smoker I wasn't offended, but I smoke outside in my own house, it seemed a little odd to be smoking indoors at work.

That said, there's something comfortably old-fashioned about the occasional case of beer or crowd of fellas puffing away in the warehouse.

 

[iwire]

At our shop / office the official smoking area is outside on the warehouse loading dock.

In some ways it's good, the electricians get to meet the office folks as they freeze in the cold having a smoke.

 

[Smart $]

Are you suggesting that there are states that would prohibit a GC from banning job site smoking?

If so could you provide a reference?

Perhaps I misstated...

As I don't believe there to be any state which actively persues discrimination in company policies, there are states in which terminating an employee for violating a smoking ban policy is illegal...

A quick search turned up the following:

http://www.cmht.com/investigation_smokers.php

http://slati.lungusa.org/appendixf.asp

I did not perform a thorough search and investigation. I am not going to persue the issue, as I know the situation in Ohio, where I reside and generally work. If you want to know more facts, I suggest you conduct a thorough investigation of the state laws affecting where you reside and work.

 

[bkludecke]

I smoked 2+ packs a day for 18 years & quit 23 years ago. (God I still miss it!!) I have several employees who smoke and have the same problems with it as have been expressed ad nauseam in this thread.

In CA it is illegal to smoke within 20' of the entrance to a public building, you can't smoke in a company vehicle unless all occupants agree to it, and you can't smoke inside in a workplace.

If you work for me you can't smoke in my office (makes me jealous), and you can't smoke within the footprint of a projects building(s) even @ roughin. This last one is because of the homeowners who just can't stand smoking and are turned off by it. And you must pick up after yourself ('cause I can't stand seeing the butts all over the ground).

Personally I think that the whole "second hand smoke can kill you" thing is crap and is not backed up by any REPUTABLE studies that I'm aware of. I think people who are annoyed by smoking like to hide behind that one.

I'm also not as scared of global warming as alot of folks seem to be.

 

[iwire]

Perhaps I misstated...

Perhaps (and I will make note of this day )

If you want to know more facts, I suggest you conduct a thorough investigation of the state laws affecting where you reside and work.

LOL

 

[roger]

smart, you need to read your links closely, the first is pertaining to employees on their own time.

Now, from the best I can tell, the actual Ohio actions on this matter can be found here and contradicts your claims.

Excerpt;

Private Workplaces
Smoking is prohibited and no proprietor shall permit smoking in places of employment. “Place of employment” is defined as an enclosed area under the direct or indirect control of an employer that the employer’s employees use for work or any other purpose, including but not limited to, offices, meeting rooms, sales, production and storage areas, restrooms, stairways, hallways, warehouses, garages, and vehicles. An enclosed area as described herein is a place of employment without regard to the time of day or the presence of employees. Smoking is still allowed in home-based businesses except during the hours of operation as a business by a person other than a person residing in the
OHIO REV. CODE ANN ?? 3794.01 to 3794.09 (2006).

Roger

 

[petersonra]

If I were one of the non-smoking employees, I would be offended that smokers got preferential treatment in regards to extra breaks.

OTOH, I am more interested in how well things get done, rather than how many breaks are taken. Many people learned early on to look busy while accomplishing very little, and others can get a lot done while appearing to not be all that diligent.

Unless you are in a union, government, or large company environment, it is best to try and let these things sort themselves out. You should have a good idea how long it should take to get something done. People who regularly take longer should be talked to.

 

[peter d]

At our shop / office the official smoking area is outside on the warehouse loading dock.

And you would never know that's the spot from the 10,000 butts littering the ground.

 

[Smart $]

smart, you need to read your links closely, the first is pertaining to employees on their own time.

I was aware of that, which is the very reason I included the second link...

Now, from the best I can tell, the actual Ohio actions on this matter can be found here and contradicts your claims.

Excerpt;

Roger

The only claims I made regarding Ohio other than being aware of the situation was it is not illegal to have a no-smoking policy. Perhaps you should read exactly what I wrote, rather than what you think I wrote.

As I originally stated, "In some states, such a policy is illegal." in response to iwire's comment, "I can not think of a single GC we work for that allows smoking on the inside of a construction site."

I modified that statement in a later post to, "As I don't believe there to be any state which actively persues discrimination in company policies, there are states in which terminating an employee for violating a smoking ban policy is illegal...", which is the very thread to which you have responded.

I do not care to persue the issue because Ohio is not among the 30 states that have so-called "Lifestyle" laws, some of which make it illegal to fire someone for using a tobacco product on or off the job. For instance...

Califormia Labor Code Excerpt:

No person shall discharge an employee or in any manner discriminate against any employee or applicant for employment because the employee or applicant engaged in any conduct delineated in this chapter, including lawful conduct occurring during nonworking hours away from the employer's premises. An aggrieved individual shall be entitled to reinstatement and reimbursement for lost wages and work benefits caused by such acts of the employer. This does not apply to a collective bargaining agreement or contract that protects an employer against any conduct that is actually in direct conflict with the essential enterprise-related interests of the employer and where breach of that contract would actually constitute a material and substantial disruption of the employer's operation; and a firefighter against any disease that is presumed to arise in the course and scope of employment, by limiting his or her consumption of tobacco products on and off the job.

CA LABOR CODE ? 96(k) & 98.6

Living and working in Ohio, I cannot use California law to protect my rights in Ohio. Therefore I suggest(ed) readers investigate the state laws that affect them on their own.

 

[memyselfandI]

Puffer heads

Puffer heads

I smoked for 23 years and quit. It was one of the hardest things I did. The thing that smokers forget is that every time they light up, they take approximately 10-15 min to smoke. Multiply that by say7-8 cigs ad day at work, that is anywhere from 80-120 min of time waisted. I agree it should be off the clock, and the work day should be extended for those who chose to smoke to compensate for the time lost on them. There are plenty of people out there looking for a job who don't smoke, give them the chance. Do what you want to off the clock, but when you are on the clock, I want you working not smoking.
California labor laws are not the standard for the rest of the country, they were enacted by the people of CA for the people of CA ( and Mexico, Honduras, Costa Rica, etc.) and should not be used as a guidline on what you should do. Check your state to see what you can do and you will find out that there isn't much you can do.

 

[romexking]

As I said, it is smoking is banned on construction sites because of the fire hazard.

1926.151(a)(3)

Smoking shall be prohibited at or in the vicinity of operations which constitute a fire hazard, and shall be conspicuously posted: "No Smoking or Open Flame."

That constitutes most indoor construction sites. Many of the GC we work for have been fined for not having the signs posted.

 

[Minuteman]

The reason given for discharging an employee, and the actual reason, can be entirely different.

 

[Smart $]

As I said, it is smoking is banned on construction sites because of the fire hazard.

1926.151(a)(3)

Smoking shall be prohibited at or in the vicinity of operations which constitute a fire hazard, and shall be conspicuously posted: "No Smoking or Open Flame."

That constitutes most indoor construction sites. Many of the GC we work for have been fined for not having the signs posted.

That is taken out of context. The following helps to put it back in context...

OCCUPATIONAL SAFETY AND HEALTH 1926 Subpart F

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Overview for Subpart F
Fire Protection and Prevention

F-1 What are the serious most frequently cited fire hazard violations in descending order?

• Transporting or handling flammable liquids in non-approved containers [1926.152(a)(1)].
• Failure to have a class 2-A rated fire extinguisher within a 100 feet (30.4 m) of an area where class A fire hazards exist within a building [1926.150(c)(1)(I)]. Another frequent violation related to this one is not having at least one class 2-A rated fire extinguisher on each floor of a multistory building located near the stairway [1926.150(c)(1)(iv)].
• Failure of the employer to develop and implement a fire protection program for all phases of work involving employees on the job site [1926.150(a)(1)].
• Failure to inspect and maintain portable fire extinguishers to keep them in serviceable condition [1926.150(c)(1)(iii)].
• Lack of posting of "no smoking" signs where refueling operations are conducted [1926.152(g)(9)], and where operations which constitute a fire hazard, which commonly will include flammable liquids and flammable gases [1926.151(a)(3)].

Next I suppose you're going to tell me welding, torch-cutting, and arc-producing electric-powered tool operations are permitted to take place in these areas!