So obviously I think I'm right and my lead is wrong.

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jim dungar said:
So if the receptacles can be located only on each side, how does that reduced the likelihood that a cord would not be draped over the basins?

In my bath there is a receptacle on the outside wall of each basin with roughly 5 inches of counter space. There are no receptacles between the basins even though there is about 3 feet of counter space. I regularly have cords passing over or behind the basins.
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I can do better when it comes to little counter space, one my bath's has a pedestal sink, so no counter top at all just a rim around the basin and a little bit of a shelf where the water fixture mounts. Receptacle off to one side, in a location that would comply with 2020 NEC.

When my battery powered shaver needs charged it gets plugged in and shaver lays on that little bit of a shelf by the water fixture. Otherwise wife has a fancy looking night light that plugs into it and hardly is ever anything else plugged in there.
 
jim dungar said:
So if the receptacles can be located only on each side, how does that reduced the likelihood that a cord would not be draped over the basins?

In my bath there is a receptacle on the outside wall of each basin with roughly 5 inches of counter space. There are no receptacles between the basins even though there is about 3 feet of counter space. I regularly have cords passing over or behind the basins.
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I said their "intent" was to not have them draped over. You can put one in the middle. I don't think they intended for a receptacle on one side to serve the space on the other side on a 6'+ vanity with two basins.
I don't actually agree with the code on this, just how I read it.
 
Little Bill said:
I said their "intent" was to not have them draped over. You can put one in the middle. I don't think they intended for a receptacle on one side to serve the space on the other side on a 6'+ vanity with two basins.
I don't actually agree with the code on this, just how I read it.
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Intent is more clear if you happen to read PI's and reports when a change was made. Otherwise it is just assumed. The wording here is not all that clear on any such intent and kind of mostly just says receptacle must be within 3 feet or the edge of basin, which that edge is all 360 degrees around the basin so as written if you put it directly behind the sink as you typically face it, that should be acceptable as well, and if that happens to be within 3 feet of any edge of the other basin on a two basin vanity, then both are covered.
 
Little Bill said:
You're over looking that the code says "outside edge of the basin". If you measure from the left side wall over to the right side, which would be the outside, of the right basin, then that would be over 3'. So a receptacle on the left side of a vanity like your drawing would not cover the requirement for a receptacle to be within 3' from the OUTSIDE of the right basin.
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Does that mean if you had a single basin that is 37” wide, you need a receptacle on both sides?
 
retirede said:
Does that mean if you had a single basin that is 37” wide, you need a receptacle on both sides?
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That would be a bath tub!

I will concede that I am thinking wrong about the outside edge. I do a lot of things that requires me to measure from/to an outside edge and was what I was thinking.

I do however think the CMP was intending to keep a cord from crossing a sink/basin.
 
So... after this awesome discussion... what about the original question...
We realize the "intent", but..
If recept is installed on left side of double vanity, AND the distance as OP states to right most basin is less than 3 feet....WHY would a recept be required in the middle of the two?
Thanks.
Excellent points if view here... thank you....
Bill...
 
Bill_F said:
So... after this awesome discussion... what about the original question...
We realize the "intent", but..
If recept is installed on left side of double vanity, AND the distance as OP states to right most basin is less than 3 feet....WHY would a recept be required in the middle of the two?
Thanks.
Excellent points if view here... thank you....
Bill...
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It depends on if the inspector wants to enforce the code as technically written or if he wants to interpret the spirit or intent of the code.
Think of a supreme court justice, does he follow the constitution as written with original intent, or does he follow precedence set by previous cases in order to interpret considering modern circumstances?

Or here is a good code example,. A light switch for a staircase only has to be at the same floor level per code. So that means I can put the light switch for the stairs anywhere, even on the other side of a 20K square foot mansion as long as it's on the same level and be code compliant. Or do I follow the intent and put the switch close to and accessible to the top and bottom landing of the stairs?
For the original question, It's an AHJ situation, there is no black and white answer
 
So for the other part of my original post, would you bond this rebar coming out of the concrete right next to the meter can?IMG_20220822_082151798~2.jpg
 
Sea Nile said:
It depends on if the inspector wants to enforce the code as technically written or if he wants to interpret the spirit or intent of the code.
Think of a supreme court justice, does he follow the constitution as written with original intent, or does he follow precedence set by previous cases in order to interpret considering modern circumstances?

Or here is a good code example,. A light switch for a staircase only has to be at the same floor level per code. So that means I can put the light switch for the stairs anywhere, even on the other side of a 20K square foot mansion as long as it's on the same level and be code compliant. Or do I follow the intent and put the switch close to and accessible to the top and bottom landing of the stairs?
For the original question, It's an AHJ situation, there is no black and white answer
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Stairways need switch at each level. Says nothing about proximity of switch location to the stairway though so if you wanted you can put them a remote area on same level that meets what code requires. With say a bedroom we have somewhat similar situation. A wall controlled switch for lighting is required but doesn't say where that switch must be. You technically are in compliance if you put switch for a third floor bedroom in the basement somewhere.
 
Sea Nile said:
For a GFCI to trip you need current taking an alternate path back to the source and there is no longer an alternate path because nothing is conductive and nothing is bonded.
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I think you are thinking of pure water, like distilled. Here the water is full of iron, from my well, so it is a conductor!

If your house has plastic pipe source and drain, measure the voltage between the hot of the wall outlet and the other probe in the sink basin with some standing water.

The picture of the rebar looks like the CEE provided by the concrete guys here. It should be the ground "rod" for the service entrance. Were there two of these and the other is the CEE?
 
kwired said:
Is that the reason it is there and/or did you bond someplace already to a CEE?

Note that if the connection is not embedded in the concrete it must somehow remain accessible after finish goes on.
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I would assume, or I think it's a safe assumption to assume, that a 2 foot piece of rebar coming out of concrete right where the meter is supposed to be installed is for concrete encased electrode. I would cut the back of a two gang box off and nail it so the drywaller's could rotozip it out. But what do I know. And no, the concert is not bonded anywhere else.
 
Frank DuVal said:
I think you are thinking of pure water, like distilled. Here the water is full of iron, from my well, so it is a conductor!
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When I say nothing is conductive, I'm referring to the tub and pipes. It doesn't matter if the tub is full of salt water, it still won't trip the GFCI. Electricity is trying to get back to the source, a GFCI will only trip if 4-6 mA of current finds it's way back to the source via some other path besides the neutral.
 
Sea Nile said:
I would assume, or I think it's a safe assumption to assume, that a 2 foot piece of rebar coming out of concrete right where the meter is supposed to be installed is for concrete encased electrode.
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Here in Oregon there needs to be an inspection tag on the rebar for it to qualify (without being tested). The structural inspectors can issue that tag when they inspect the footing.
For the rare ones that get missed its often cheaper to drive two ground rods then test the UFER, but even in that rare case I still would bond to that rebar as it would likely outlast the rods and it appears to be right next to the incoming service.
 
tortuga said:
Here in Oregon there needs to be an inspection tag on the rebar for it to qualify (without being tested). The structural inspectors can issue that tag when they inspect the footing.
For the rare ones that get missed its often cheaper to drive two ground rods then test the UFER, but even in that rare case I still would bond to that rebar as it would likely outlast the rods and it appears to be right next to the incoming service.
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So if it's not tagged, is it a violation to bond it. Providing that there is also two ground rods?
 
tortuga said:
Correct
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Ummmm... Not sure what you mean, but here is what I think. You are never wrong by bonding to the rebar. If there is any doubt then drive 2 rods. But if the slab does qualify as an electrode then you would be wrong to not bond it. So it's always safer to bond. Plus if you bond, you will bring the NEV to same potential
 
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