So obviously I think I'm right and my lead is wrong.

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Sea Nile said:
When I say nothing is conductive, I'm referring to the tub and pipes. It doesn't matter if the tub is full of salt water, it still won't trip the GFCI.
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Yes, I do agree a tub full of mercury that not connected to a ground will not conduct, but when the water is running, then there is a path.

However, if the tub is made of a conductive material, and the water spigot/controls* are bolted to the tub, then there is a water connection all the time. Plastic tub, nope. Shower, water is connecting through dots or maybe streams, depends on shower head , to people. Or when they operate the controls.

* I have not run into non metallic shower or tub controls. Yes, most of the kit laundry tubs are non-metallic controls.
 
Sea Nile said:
When I say nothing is conductive, I'm referring to the tub and pipes. It doesn't matter if the tub is full of salt water, it still won't trip the GFCI. Electricity is trying to get back to the source, a GFCI will only trip if 4-6 mA of current finds it's way back to the source via some other path besides the neutral.
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Tub, shower conductivity…
a shower is little droplets that separate and therefore are not conductive.
learned this the hard way.
I was in Belize and taking a shower.
Your fine until you reach close to the head where the water isn’t separated yet.
there you get a shock that will definitely wake you up..
these are shower head water heaters..
I never tripped a breaker, and I didnt see one GFCI in the places I looked in Belize. Stayed around Ladyville mostly
C405B7BD-298C-469B-8180-08C9675ED4FE.jpeg
 
Hv&Lv said:
Tub, shower conductivity…
a shower is little droplets that separate and therefore are not conductive.
learned this the hard way.
I was in Belize and taking a shower.
Your fine until you reach close to the head where the water isn’t separated yet.
there you get a shock that will definitely wake you up..
these are shower head water heaters..
I never tripped a breaker, and I didnt see one GFCI in the places I looked in Belize. Stayed around Ladyville mostly
View attachment 2561875
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You know how a swimming pool will have something to bond the water, sometimes it's in the skimmer. With all the nonconductive material in the bathrooms nowadays, maybe there should be something similar. This would enable the GFCI to trip if something gets dropped in the water. Does someone here think this is worth making a code change public input?
 
Sea Nile said:
You know how a swimming pool will have something to bond the water, sometimes it's in the skimmer. With all the nonconductive material in the bathrooms nowadays, maybe there should be something similar. This would enable the GFCI to trip if something gets dropped in the water. Does someone here think this is worth making a code change public input?
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Unless there is a significant number of electrocutions in those situations I say no. Makes even less sense to require GFCI's in some places they do require them. Kitchens used to just be required within 6 ft of the sink, then they went to all receptacles serving counters. Many those don't have anything grounded in close proximity either. Should have left it at within 6 ft from sinks IMO. Some those sinks probably are fairly isolated, but at same time only pure water is an insulator and water takes on minerals pretty easily which will increase conductivity. Might not be great conductor but can carry enough current to electrocute someone in the right conditions.
 
tortuga said:
Agreed, but here without that inspection tag its just a random piece of rebar. To qualify as a ufer it needs to be inspected prior to the pour.
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Right, but that's an Oregon specific inspection procedure, right?

I'd say it should be bonded, because if it is a CEE (whether inspected or not), it's required to be used as a grounding electrode, and if it's not, there's no harm in bonding it.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
Right, but that's an Oregon specific inspection procedure, right?

I'd say it should be bonded, because if it is a CEE (whether inspected or not), it's required to be used as a grounding electrode, and if it's not, there's no harm in bonding it.

Cheers, Wayne
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If it’s not inspected how do you know it complies with the requirements for a CEE?
I have watched some installed with a 3-4’ long piece of rebar bent and tied on. No 25” lap nor was it 20’ long
saw one electrician give the footing guy a piece of wire about 6-8 ft long and told him where to stick it out.
Dont know if they passed or not. Didn’t care enough to find out.


Speaking of Oregon…
reminds me of this piece.
www.ecmag.com

Electrical Service Grounding Option: The Steel Rebar 'Sticking-Out' Method?

If you bought a house in the last 15 years or so, you may actually have a building element protruding from the side of your home. In this article, I discuss service grounding connections and what I call the rebar "sticking-out" method as permitted by Section 250.68(C)(3) of the 2017 National...
www.ecmag.com www.ecmag.com
 
Hv&Lv said:
If it’s not inspected how do you know it complies with the requirements for a CEE?
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You don't, if there's a possibility the installer was dishonest. So then you bond to it in case it is a CEE, but require another electrode, in case it isn't.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
You don't, if there's a possibility the installer was dishonest.
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In my experience its not that concrete guys are dishonest but they are always in a hurry to pour and dont know any better.
The most common mistake is they put the rebar above a plastic vapor barrier.
The requirement for a ufer is part of the foundation code here:
R403.1.8:

CHAPTER 4 FOUNDATIONS - 2021 OREGON RESIDENTIAL SPECIALTY CODE

ICC Digital Codes is the largest provider of model codes, custom codes and standards used worldwide to construct safe, sustainable, affordable and resilient structures.
codes.iccsafe.org codes.iccsafe.org

Like I said if its not inspected I always hit it anyways, but groudrods or a test will be required.
 
tortuga said:
In my experience its not that concrete guys are dishonest but they are always in a hurry to pour and dont know any better.
The most common mistake is they put the rebar above a plastic vapor barrier.
The requirement for a ufer is part of the foundation code here:
R403.1.8:

CHAPTER 4 FOUNDATIONS - 2021 OREGON RESIDENTIAL SPECIALTY CODE

ICC Digital Codes is the largest provider of model codes, custom codes and standards used worldwide to construct safe, sustainable, affordable and resilient structures.
codes.iccsafe.org codes.iccsafe.org

Like I said if its not inspected I always hit it anyways, but groudrods or a test will be required.
Click to expand...
That is the real problem.
 
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