Sub panel in bathroom

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renosteinke

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
That's funny ....

I have a room with a sink, a toilet, and a tub/shower - along with a collection of various magazines and catalogs. I call that room the 'library.' :)
 
jwelectric

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
cowboyjwc said:
Actually Roger, that's kind of where I was headed with that, but just simplified it instead.

It's like when we plan check medical suites, and they want to call rooms offices so they don't have to wire them per 517. I tell them that you can call it whatever you want, but when you decide that you need more exam rooms, you'll wish that you had wired the whole building per 517.

Oh and by the way, I bet that room that he's calling an office has a smoke alarm in it.:happyyes:
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This is my home. I get to say what room is what and there is not any inspector anywhere on this globe that can call it anything different than what I call it. If the inspector doesn?t like what I call my rooms they can feel free to stay away. I can get the state inspector to do my inspections.

I went through this with the local inspector when he demanded that I install a smoke alarm in my office. Guess what? It is an office that has a closet and no smoke alarm.

I beg for someone to show me text in any code that says that any room that has a closet is a bedroom. If that was true then my kitchen is no longer a kitchen, my laundry room is no longer a laundry room, and my foyer is no longer a foyer.
Instead of having a three bedroom house I would have a seven bedroom house that does not have a foyer, laundry, kitchen, or office.

The key to the original post is the definition of bathroom in either the NEC or the IRC with the word found in the definition of ?area?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
jwelectric said:
This is my home. I get to say what room is what and there is not any inspector anywhere on this globe that can call it anything different than what I call it. If the inspector doesn?t like what I call my rooms they can feel free to stay away. I can get the state inspector to do my inspections.

I went through this with the local inspector when he demanded that I install a smoke alarm in my office. Guess what? It is an office that has a closet and no smoke alarm.

I beg for someone to show me text in any code that says that any room that has a closet is a bedroom. If that was true then my kitchen is no longer a kitchen, my laundry room is no longer a laundry room, and my foyer is no longer a foyer.
Instead of having a three bedroom house I would have a seven bedroom house that does not have a foyer, laundry, kitchen, or office.

The key to the original post is the definition of bathroom in either the NEC or the IRC with the word found in the definition of ?area?
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My office has a closet and a smoke detector. It also has permanent desk/cabinets that wraps around two corners of the room making it very impractical to be a bedroom without removing the permanent desk/cabinets first. (It was a bedroom before it became an office).

My entire house is an "area" that happens to have basins, toilets, tubs/showers - is the entire house a bathroom? I might need to move my breaker panels to the outside of the house if it is a bathroom.
 
jwelectric

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
kwired said:
My entire house is an "area" that happens to have basins, toilets, tubs/showers - is the entire house a bathroom? I might need to move my breaker panels to the outside of the house if it is a bathroom.
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Man you got me to thinking about something, I live in the Piedmont area of NC and about everyone who lives here has a tub and sink. Maybe I should move my panel to SC.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
jwelectric said:
This is my home. I get to say what room is what and there is not any inspector anywhere on this globe that can call it anything different than what I call it. If the inspector doesn?t like what I call my rooms they can feel free to stay away. I can get the state inspector to do my inspections.

I went through this with the local inspector when he demanded that I install a smoke alarm in my office. Guess what? It is an office that has a closet and no smoke alarm.

I beg for someone to show me text in any code that says that any room that has a closet is a bedroom. If that was true then my kitchen is no longer a kitchen, my laundry room is no longer a laundry room, and my foyer is no longer a foyer.
Instead of having a three bedroom house I would have a seven bedroom house that does not have a foyer, laundry, kitchen, or office.

The key to the original post is the definition of bathroom in either the NEC or the IRC with the word found in the definition of ?area?
Click to expand...

In our area if it is marked on the plans as an office then it is an office since the plans were accepted that way. Basically the lans rule but the approval person or committee must agree with the plan. If they see it as a bedroom then you will have to treat it as such and rename the room on the plans. This is usually not an issue as I treat most rooms in the sleeping area as a bedroom.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Twoskinsoneman said:
Any ideas on why it's a sin to have an OCPD in the bathroom?
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When Moses came back from the mountain he actually had three stone tablets but since he only had two hands instead of three, he dropped one and it shattered before he got back. That tablet had "thou shalt not have overcurrent devices in bathrooms on it":happyyes:
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Joethemechanic said:
I view that as being "Green"

It doesn't waste gallons of water flushing away 16 ounces of urine. And yes I am totally serious
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I do not disagree, we did this for a long time before we developed plumbing. Problem is too many people in too small of a space makes more problems - man I love living in the country. There is a neighbor maybe about 100-200 yards away but there is a grove of cedar trees between so it makes it seem even farther, but the next closest is over 1 mile away.
 
renosteinke

renosteinke

Senior Member
Location
NE Arkansas
I believe that the prohibition of placing panels in bathrooms was based on concerns over working space and corrosion, encouraged by the greater humidity.

The code rule came about after an aggressive campaign by Joe Tedesco, who posted plenty of pictures of decrepit panels in bathrooms. That most of these locations were both in the shower, as well as in 'illegal' bathrooms added to places like basements- and that the baths also violated other codes (like the mechanical code's ventilation requirement) were points that Joe did not address.

Look at the existing bathroom in my house, and you'll find an extremely cramped layout. There is simply no place that is not obstructed by a plumbing fixture. The 'best' space is between the front of the toilet and the side of the tub, and is about 24" wide. Still too little working space. This is common in bathrooms.

At the opposite extreme, one McMansion I worked in had a 'main bath' that was large enough to roller skate in. The counter held three sinks and was easily ten ft. long. With all the lighting, the hot tub, the heating, etc., it could very well have filled a small panel all by itself. The bathtub itself needed two GFCI circuits.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
renosteinke said:
I believe that the prohibition of placing panels in bathrooms was based on concerns over working space and corrosion, encouraged by the greater humidity.

The code rule came about after an aggressive campaign by Joe Tedesco, who posted plenty of pictures of decrepit panels in bathrooms. That most of these locations were both in the shower, as well as in 'illegal' bathrooms added to places like basements- and that the baths also violated other codes (like the mechanical code's ventilation requirement) were points that Joe did not address.

Look at the existing bathroom in my house, and you'll find an extremely cramped layout. There is simply no place that is not obstructed by a plumbing fixture. The 'best' space is between the front of the toilet and the side of the tub, and is about 24" wide. Still too little working space. This is common in bathrooms.

At the opposite extreme, one McMansion I worked in had a 'main bath' that was large enough to roller skate in. The counter held three sinks and was easily ten ft. long. With all the lighting, the hot tub, the heating, etc., it could very well have filled a small panel all by itself. The bathtub itself needed two GFCI circuits.
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I can show you many, many bathrooms that are less humid or corrosive than many other panels I have seen in other allowable locations that panels are not prohibited to be installed. I can also show you a few homes where this is a concern, but so is the rest of the home. I do think it is a good idea to still keep them out of that room but have worked many non dwellings where panels were in conditions much worse.

As far a Joe... what limited experienece I have had with him.. he needs to get out and realize what the real world is like. I submitted a photo for his code violations segment in whatever magazine (EC&M) I believe once, they published it but changed most of the story behind the photo (apparently to make it more interesting for publication). I have not been impressed with him ever since. They said the violation was allowed by the inspector - which I never even came close to saying in my submission. The State Electrical Division executive director seen the article and wrote me a letter wanting to know which one of his inspectors allowed that installation, I had to explain that most likely none of his inspectors had ever even seen the installation, and how I felt about the whole situation of how my little story was handled.
 
S

stevenje

Senior Member
Location
Yachats Oregon
cowboyjwc said:
I agree that it's a bathroom. That's like calling it an office when it has a closet, it's still a bedroom.
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Where I come from, if the room has a toilet in it, it is call the bathroom. You don't hear anybody say "I'll be right back. I'm going to use the office or the bedroom or the den or the ....... ;)
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
stevenje said:
Where I come from, if the room has a toilet in it, it is call the bathroom. You don't hear anybody say "I'll be right back. I'm going to use the office or the bedroom or the den or the ....... ;)
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But they don't say "I'm going to the NEC art 100 defined bathroom". And sometimes they do call it the office;)
 
Joethemechanic

Joethemechanic

Senior Member
Location
Hazleton Pa
Occupation
Electro-Mechanical Technician. Industrial machinery
renosteinke said:
At the opposite extreme, one McMansion I worked in had a 'main bath' that was large enough to roller skate in. The counter held three sinks and was easily ten ft. long.
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Baby that's nothing,

Back behind our barn we use to have an outhouse with two holes and a hose bib on the outside to wash your hands. I can remember my great uncle Jack (a mechanical engineer) using it and if you accidently opened the door he would say in his German accent "come on in, room for two"

I think he did it just to see us little brats run lol
 
roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
What's wrong with this?

shower.JPG

:D

Roger
 
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