Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

[davedottcom]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

"It is resolved. The code isn't completly clear so there are two groups. Those who believe it's allowed, like me, and those who are wrong."

ROFLOL!!!
Good One Sam!

Dave

 

[jwelectric]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

The allowable ampacity of a 1/0 insulated single aluminum conductor is isolated in air with a conductor temperature of 90 degrees C and an ambient air temperature of 40 degrees C, operating at 23 KV is:
(a) 175 amps (c) 230 amps
(b) 200 amps (d) 270 amps

 

[physis]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

It doesn't say we can switch a 210.52 rect and not have a lighting outlet.

It doesn't say we can use really cool looking brass device cover plates either.

Edit:

Having a switched rect does not eliminate the need for a lighting outlet, it is the lighting outlet

You don't have to ever plug a light into the receptacle.

By the way Iwire agrees with you because 210.70(A)(1) Ex. 1 is an exception to a lighting outlet section. Which I also think has some merit, but I'm still on the other side.

[ April 02, 2005, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Originally posted by physis:
It doesn't say we can use really cool looking brass device cover plates either.

But we can't use your cool brass plate and my functional stainless steel plate on the same single receptacle.

A single receptacle IMO can not be two things at once, the required receptacle outlets for the wall space and the required lighting outlet.

 

[physis]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

I agree it gets a little hairy there, but still, nothing prevents it from being both.

Edit: Like I was editing while you were posting, it' doesn't say the receptacle ever has to be used for a light or anything else.

[ April 02, 2005, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: physis ]

 

[kturner]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

D. All of the above.

 

[jwelectric]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

"b" Table 310.70

edited to say---just messing around looking for page twenty

[ April 02, 2005, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]

 

[iwire]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

What the heck am I doing posting in this thread again?

Just when I thought that I was out they pull me back in.

 

[kturner]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Every habitable room must have a lighting outlet- it will either be a switched outlet with or without a fixture mounted on it or it will be a switched rect with the expressed purpose of plugging in a light of some sort. That's exactly what the rect is for.

 

[jwelectric]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

kturner
read this exception a couple of times real slow. check each referance as you do.

Exception No. 1: In addition to the required receptacles specified by 210.52, switched receptacles supplied from a general-purpose branch circuit as defined in 210.70(A)(1), Exception No. 1, shall be permitted.

edited to say----back to the ball game

[ April 02, 2005, 10:27 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

[ April 02, 2005, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]

 

[physis]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Kturner,

If you just read it looking for it to varify what you already believe it means you might not see that it can also be interpreted the other way.

It doesn't say anything about what to use the receptacle for.

I was on the "it's not allowed" side too until I tried to use the code to prove it and couldn't.

Bob,

This thing's to big to escape it's gravitaional pull anymore. I think you should just get used to it and try to find a comfortable orbit.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Hi Sam!

On a totally unrelated topic, did you see this totally unrelated proposal?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

kturner, haven't seen you around. Welcome to the forum.

I would suggest you go back to page three, read from there a few pages forward, and see who you believe to be right. Have your codebook handy, although I'm pretty sure we wrote everything out.

Bob (iwire) is a nice guy, a talented electrician with years in the field, 5000 posts on this forum, and a solid knowledge of the code. JWelectric, (bless his heart) is an instructor, knows his code and is a nice guy too. I am a lowly housemonkey with under three years in.

And I still think I'm right.

[ April 03, 2005, 01:11 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Like i posted earlier,i believe NEC permits using the SA outlet for this light.I do not feel it was the intent to allow it.We have heard plenty to push this either way.I am sitting on top of the fence and not sure if we will ever get this solved.Nec once again has failed to write a rule clear enough.The only smart thing you could do is ask the AHJ or add a switched receptacle from general purpose branch circuit.While it might not be needed it is not disputed to pass.Now if i had 200 of these then it might be worth fighting over.Can anyone point out any hazard in using the SA receptacle for this purpose ?

 

[apauling]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

physis: you are wrong in assuming that the NEC is permissive of undefined wiring methods. Undefined wiring methods are not permitted by the NEC. Just because it doesn't say you can't, doesn't mean you can. For example, it doesn't say that you can't put an elevator in the kitchen, a dog house with a plug in light on the small appliance branch circuit, light a laundry chute, etc. Wiring methods must be one of the listed methods. You can use listed brass cover plats, but you can't use paper mache or gum drops for cover plates. One of the prescribed methods.

and for one last time on this topic. You can switch a sa outlet, and you can use a switched outlet for lighting general use branch circuits, but the sa outlets are not general purpose branch circuits, they are sa circuits. And if the the sw outlet is in lieu of a light where the light is required, it is a lighting outlet.

there are those of us on this side of the issue, and the others who are mistaken.

paul

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Originally posted by georgestolz:
Hi Sam!

On a totally unrelated topic, did you see this totally unrelated proposal?

Lets all vote for this and let this thread die in piece

 

[George Stolz]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Paul, if you get a friendly handshake in lieu of $500 cash, how much cash do you receive?

If you get a switched receptacle in lieu of a lighting outlet, why do you think you have a lighting outlet?

Edit to add:

...but you can't use paper mache or gum drops for cover plates.

If your gum drops comply with 406.5 and 110.3, you can.

[ April 03, 2005, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

I was staying out of this, but did I hear someone say gumdrops!

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

210.70 Lighting Outlets Required.
Lighting outlets shall be installed where specified in 210.70(A), (B), and (C).
(A) Dwelling Units. In dwelling units, lighting outlets shall be installed in accordance with 210.70(A)(1), (2), and (3).
(1) Habitable Rooms. At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom.
Exception No. 1: In other than kitchens and bathrooms, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.

i believe the part we dont agree on is the IN LIEU OF

Main Entry: lieu
Pronunciation: 'l?
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English liue, from Old French lieu, from Latin locus ?more at STALL
Date: 14th century
archaic : PLACE, STEAD
- in lieu : INSTEAD
- in lieu of : in the place of : instead of

Pronunciation Key

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That being said, what nec said was INSTEAD of a lighting outlet i can offer a switched receptacle

[ April 03, 2005, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]