- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
Besides, I'm right, dang it.
Besides, I'm right, dang it.
Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
- Thread starter davedottcom
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
Originally posted by physis:
And Bob, you can't sleep at night if there's a code violation anywhere in the world.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
Another analogy, and then I'll try to shut up.
In my living room, a switched receptacle was installed next to the front door per the exception. The placement of that receptacle does not mesh with my wife's desired furniture layout, so we have the lamp plugged into a different receptacle.
The room was wired to code, but I still walk into the room to turn on the lamp. Just because we intend for that receptacle to be used as a replacement for the lighting outlet, doesn't mean it will be so. Assumptions.
Another analogy, and then I'll try to shut up.
In my living room, a switched receptacle was installed next to the front door per the exception. The placement of that receptacle does not mesh with my wife's desired furniture layout, so we have the lamp plugged into a different receptacle.
The room was wired to code, but I still walk into the room to turn on the lamp. Just because we intend for that receptacle to be used as a replacement for the lighting outlet, doesn't mean it will be so. Assumptions.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
George if you can sweet talk an inspector into seeing that way more power to you.
George if you can sweet talk an inspector into seeing that way more power to you.
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
Bob, this residential wiring is insane.
Even with larger size commercial jobs, (I had one last year that just two change orders totaled 1.8 million) I can't think of anything that would cause this much grief and this is just a switch and a receptacle.
Roger
Bob, this residential wiring is insane.
same here.Originally posted by iwire:
George if you can sweet talk an inspector into seeing that way more power to you.
Even with larger size commercial jobs, (I had one last year that just two change orders totaled 1.8 million) I can't think of anything that would cause this much grief and this is just a switch and a receptacle.
Roger
physis
Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
What's that dear?
I SAID, you bought the wrong color dish soap, AGAIN. If you'd put that "Secret Photos of Illegal Wiring Installations" periodical down for five minutes I wouldn't have to repeat myself so often.
That's nice dear. Hey, did you see this expos'e on creative dining room lighting?
What's that dear?
I SAID, you bought the wrong color dish soap, AGAIN. If you'd put that "Secret Photos of Illegal Wiring Installations" periodical down for five minutes I wouldn't have to repeat myself so often.
That's nice dear. Hey, did you see this expos'e on creative dining room lighting?
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
You must not know what the inside of a bathroom looks like then.Originally posted by iwire:
I have a wife and two daughters,
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
Well i see this is like the energizer bunny.Ok i must ask this.Assuming i except that using the SA outlet for this dining room light is a violation.What is the cure ? Put a duplex next to the SA one to plug the light in ?That creates a hazard.Who will guard it from getting a coffee pot pluged into it ? I now have a duplex in a dining room that looks just like all the others.But it is on a lighting branch circuit at 15 amps.Your creating one violation to fix the other.
Well i see this is like the energizer bunny.Ok i must ask this.Assuming i except that using the SA outlet for this dining room light is a violation.What is the cure ? Put a duplex next to the SA one to plug the light in ?That creates a hazard.Who will guard it from getting a coffee pot pluged into it ? I now have a duplex in a dining room that looks just like all the others.But it is on a lighting branch circuit at 15 amps.Your creating one violation to fix the other.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
This is exactly what both ?02 and ?05 handbooks show. Of course they may be wrong and not know what they are talking about.
davedottcom
Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
Believe it or not, the very next house (Hurricane re-wire) I just wired, the owner requested the same thing. (This time for a floor lamp) That makes 2 switched "receptacles" in Dining rooms for me since 1987 and they were both in the last 2 weeks. I wired both of them as 1/2 hots on the SA circuit along with the Refrig. NOTE: BOTH dining rooms also have ceiling light "outlets" on seperate lighting circuits.
I originally wired both of them without really thinking too much about it. BUT...then I started thinking....is that Really ok? I searched the NEC...I couldn't find any reason NOT to ...that's when I posted this topic.
Come to think of it, there Was Another customer that wanted one of his "existing" Din. Rm receptacles to be switched. I sold him a remote control with a plug in receiver. This one was for a little table lamp. Worked great by the way!
Dave
I don't think the "Popularity" of doing such an install is relevant. The fact that it is possible is the reason it needs to be addressed.
Believe it or not, the very next house (Hurricane re-wire) I just wired, the owner requested the same thing. (This time for a floor lamp) That makes 2 switched "receptacles" in Dining rooms for me since 1987 and they were both in the last 2 weeks. I wired both of them as 1/2 hots on the SA circuit along with the Refrig. NOTE: BOTH dining rooms also have ceiling light "outlets" on seperate lighting circuits.
I originally wired both of them without really thinking too much about it. BUT...then I started thinking....is that Really ok? I searched the NEC...I couldn't find any reason NOT to ...that's when I posted this topic.
Come to think of it, there Was Another customer that wanted one of his "existing" Din. Rm receptacles to be switched. I sold him a remote control with a plug in receiver. This one was for a little table lamp. Worked great by the way!
Dave
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
We had to keep the code book out to check the rules.
Or considering the work you do, the addition of some imaging equipment.
LOL you should have seen a 1/2 dozen of us foreman trying to wire a coworkers new house. We where lost.
We had to keep the code book out to check the rules. Or considering the work you do, the addition of some imaging equipment.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
This just goes to show that I am a complete idiot.Originally posted by electricmanscott:
This will go to 4+ pages.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
Not an idiot Scott, just an inaccurate prophet.
Not an idiot Scott, just an inaccurate prophet.
jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
copied and pasted from the 2002 hand book;
210.70 Lighting Outlets Required.
Lighting outlets shall be installed where specified in 210.70(A), (B), and (C).
(A) Dwelling Units. In dwelling units, lighting outlets shall be installed in accordance with 210.70(A)(1), (2), and (3).
(1) Habitable Rooms. At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom.
Exception No. 1: In other than kitchens and bathrooms, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.
A receptacle is not permitted to be switched as a lighting outlet on a small-appliance branch circuit. A receptacle can be switched as a lighting outlet (in the dining room, for example) supplied by a branch circuit other than a small-appliance branch circuit. See Exhibit 210.26, which shows a dining room switched receptacle on a 15-ampere general-purpose branch circuit.
copied and pasted from the 2002 hand book;
210.70 Lighting Outlets Required.
Lighting outlets shall be installed where specified in 210.70(A), (B), and (C).
(A) Dwelling Units. In dwelling units, lighting outlets shall be installed in accordance with 210.70(A)(1), (2), and (3).
(1) Habitable Rooms. At least one wall switch-controlled lighting outlet shall be installed in every habitable room and bathroom.
Exception No. 1: In other than kitchens and bathrooms, one or more receptacles controlled by a wall switch shall be permitted in lieu of lighting outlets.
A receptacle is not permitted to be switched as a lighting outlet on a small-appliance branch circuit. A receptacle can be switched as a lighting outlet (in the dining room, for example) supplied by a branch circuit other than a small-appliance branch circuit. See Exhibit 210.26, which shows a dining room switched receptacle on a 15-ampere general-purpose branch circuit.
davedottcom
Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?
JW, you are correct. Except it should say Exhibit 210.25 not 210.26 (It's a type-o in the handbook)
Do you consider a switched 1/2 hot on a SA circuit a "Lighting Outlet" IF the room already has a lighting outlet (Ceiling Light)?
Dave
JW, you are correct. Except it should say Exhibit 210.25 not 210.26 (It's a type-o in the handbook)
Do you consider a switched 1/2 hot on a SA circuit a "Lighting Outlet" IF the room already has a lighting outlet (Ceiling Light)?
Dave
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