Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

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allenwayne

Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Originally posted by peter d:
Survey: (Curiosity factor here) How many of you have actually had to install a switched dining room outlet?

If so, did you lie awake at night, tossing and turning, while thinking about the NEC ramifications of doing such an installation?
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I have done this same senario,in which there were 2 rooms side by side,origanlly a living room on the floor plans but h.o`r wanted to swap the lay out :D .To me it is code compliant both on a 20 amp circuit,there is a switched outlet in both rooms :D So did we comply with min. requirements in both rooms :D Want to nit pick this subject go ahead but to me it is code compliant minimum standards have been met,all is good ;)
 
davedottcom

davedottcom

Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

George, you're right, but so is JW!

2 Different NEC Books, 2 different answers.

It would all depend on which NEC book the inspector is using.

Great, just great... another 2008 proposal. :roll:

Dave
 
physis

physis

Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

The handbook's not enforceable so the NEC wins.

George, I'm shocked.

I don't think I could possibly find the energy to get one more inch out of this one.
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jwelectric

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Originally posted by davedottcom:
JW, you are correct. Except it should say Exhibit 210.25 not 210.26 (It's a type-o in the handbook)

Do you consider a switched 1/2 hot on a SA circuit a "Lighting Outlet" IF the room already has a lighting outlet (Ceiling Light)?

Dave
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No, half or all of a small appliance receptacle can be switched and be code compliant. All the receptacles can be switched and be code compliant. Just can?t use them to replace the required lighting outlet or receptacle.

Allenwayne you state
Does there have to be a lighting controled outlet yes in this case there are 2 20 amp required outlets that both serve required receptacle and lighting outlet requirements.

With respect you are in violation of the NEC by renaming the small appliance branch circuit as a general lighting circuit. It can?t be both. You are sold on your idea and it is obvious no one can change your mind. One though that you might think about for a while is, if this was code compliant don?t you think electricians would have been doing it before now?

I hope and pray that any person that reads this thread that is new to the trade will research this in detail before trying to get by with using a switched small appliance receptacle for the requirements of 210.70.
 
physis

physis

Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Huh, what, oh, hi Dave.

I dunno, ask your AHJ if they've adopted the handbook. They'll probably say that they've adopted the NEC.

Edit:
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[ March 28, 2005, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
sandsnow

sandsnow

Senior Member
Location
Southern California
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Originally posted by physis:
What's that dear?

If you'd put that "Secret Photos of Illegal Wiring Installations" periodical down for five minutes I wouldn't have to repeat myself so often.

Wait, you're not supposed to have that!!!! It's for inspectors only!!!! We go to it when we have nothing better to do![/ B] ;)


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iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Originally posted by davedottcom:
The handbook's not enforceable so the NEC wins.
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um...is that in writing somewhere?!?

:confused:

Dave
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Hi Dave it is in writing.

From the front of the 2002 NEC Handbook
The commentary and supplementary materials in this handbook are not a part of the Code and do not constitute Formal Interpretations of the NFPA (which can be obtained only through requests processed by the responsible technical committees in accordance with the published procedures of the NFPA). The commentary and supplementary materials, therefore, solely reflect the personal opinions of the editor or other contributors and do not necessarily represent the official position of the NFPA or its technical committees.
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J

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

This has gone far enough.Lets write a proposal to ban all dining rooms :D
I do feel they intended to not have lights on a SA circuits.
If we graded them on there work at writing rules to cover this they failed.
210.52b1 exception 1 says something we all bypassed.It says switched receptacles on general purpose branch circuits are PERMITTED
Last time i checked Permitted did not mean REQUIRED .So with that i would assume i could use the SA circuit or general purpose.

Can just see it now.
Inspector :Jim why do you have 2 sets of outlets in dining room.Jim: because i want to be able to plug in a lamp.Inspector:But jim you can't have 15 amp general lighting receptacles in dining room.Jim:sure i can read 210.52b1 exception 1.Inspector : but how will anyone know which one to use or not use.Jim:members of mike holts forum will take turns guarding it ;)
 
davedottcom

davedottcom

Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

but how will anyone know which one to use or not use
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Simple, just spray paint "Use this outlet for lamps" on the wall above it and have a big arrow pointing towards it!

Dave
 
George Stolz

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Having a 15 next to a 20 in a dining room strikes me as a step back, IMO. I can't believe that the handbook folks would have that drawn in and not go, "Hmm, that looks odd," and see a problem with it. Weird.

By the NEC, I'm still right though. :cool:
 
davedottcom

davedottcom

Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

The commentary and supplementary materials in this handbook are not a part of the Code and do not constitute Formal Interpretations of the NFPA
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That's Exactly what I was looking for!
Thanks Bob.

Anyone want to buy a 2002 handbook? (cheap!)

call me!

Dave :)
 
physis

physis

Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Picture books are still handy, I have a different one that I use.

George, isn't that your towel on the floor? :D

Edit: 3:09 AM Bob? Does your boss have to chase you home with a broom? :D

[ March 28, 2005, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
peter d

peter d

Senior Member
Location
New England
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Originally posted by physis:

Edit: 3:09 AM Bob? Does your boss have to chase you home with a broom? :D
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C'mon Sam, you should know he couldn't sleep because of this thread. He was up reading the code book.
 
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