Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

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jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Bob I wish that you had posted the paragraph that came before yours. I agree that the commentary and supplementary materials in the handbook are not a part of the Code and cannot be enforced but I don?t know any inspectors that won?t rule by them. The hand book is a great study guide and I use it a lot even in my Standard Inspector courses.

Here is the header and paragraph that starts your paragraph read it closely,

Notice Concerning Code Interpretations: This ninth edition of the National Electrical Code Handbook is based on the 2002 edition of NFPA 70, National Electrical Code. All NFPA codes, standards, recommended practices, and guides are developed in accordance with the published procedures of the NFPA by technical committees comprised of volunteers drawn from a broad array of relevant interests. The handbook contains the complete text of NFPA 70 and any applicable Formal Interpretations issued by the Association. These documents are accompanied by explanatory commentary and other supplementary materials.

For those who think that the hand book is a different code, the above paragraph states clearly that the hand book contains the complete text of NFPA 70 (the code)
:p

[ March 28, 2005, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
 

amptech

Senior Member
Location
Indiana
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

But the Handbook is still just an informal opinion that is no more or less valid than yours or mine. I have had many inspectors tell me just that. I have had a couple of inspectors refuse to discuss a code issue with me if "I was going to continue to reference the Handbook". One particularly obstinate inspector once told me that the NEC Handbook was the same as the turtle and rabbit symbols on a lawn mower throttle, it was there for folks too simple to read the words "Fast" and "Slow". I think the Handbook can be very helpful in reaching an understanding of the NEC in confusing applications but both parties have to be willing to discuss the situation with an open mind. As far as the quote from the Handbook about it containing the complete text of the NEC, I read that to one of the obstinate inspectors once. His reply was, "Well, lets just discuss the text of the NEC and leave out the commentary. I'm not interested in someone's commentary."

[ March 28, 2005, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: amptech ]
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Jw, there is no question that the NFPA NEC handbook contains the NEC text, it does, however the additional commentary is simply oppinion, and this is what Bob points out.

This has also been pointed out quite a few times in the past on these forums.

Roger

[ March 28, 2005, 06:44 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

JW don't get me wrong I like the handbook.

That said inspectors should be basing their decisions on the words in the NEC not the words and pictures in the NECH.

Here is the part you made bold.

The handbook contains the complete text of NFPA 70 and any applicable Formal Interpretations issued by the Association.
How many Formal Interpretations can you find in the 2002 hand book?

The answer is 3.

Article 250.50

Article 410, Part XI

Article 517, Part II

Not a real big help. :)

Bob
 

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Dang now im scared i finally agree with something Bob said.
So after several days and dozens of opinions just how do we end this ? Right now i think there is enough here to push this either way i wanted.
There is one factor to think about.
In a court of law any contract that is vague in wording is aginst the writer of the contract.Meaning if you wrote something that could be misunderstood it is working aginst you.
 

jwelectric

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Bob Roger like I said in my last post ?I agree that the commentary and supplementary materials in the handbook are not a part of the Code and cannot be enforced?

I was only trying to point out how the editors of the hand book looked at the switched small appliance receptacle being used as a lighting outlet. I was using this great educational tool as just that a tool.

Knowing that students (this site is required reading for all my classes) use this site I wanted to make sure that I had something backing me along with the code. As the editors of the Hand book are far more educated than me and most others in this forum I injected it to strengthen my statement.

With or with out the hand book the NEC is clear on this matter.
:) ;) :cool:
 

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

[QUOSimple, just spray paint "Use this outlet for lamps" on the wall above it and have a big arrow pointing towards it! TE] [/QUOTE]

better idea put sign next to the 15 saying this outlet only good for a 1 or a 2, do not plug in a 3 or 4 or the generator will go POOF signed Oliver
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Originally posted by jimwalker:

In a court of law any contract that is vague in wording is aginst the writer of the contract. Meaning if you wrote something that could be misunderstood it is working aginst you.
Is this from experience? :D

Roger
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Ohhhhh!!! :roll:

Roger
 

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

[QUOTWith or with out the hand book the NEC is clear on this matter.
E] [/QUOTE]

Im more confused now than when we started.If my job in the morning was to wire for a dining room lamp to be plugged in as the only means of lighting i am not sure how i would handle it :confused: :confused: :confused:
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

I hope I never never end up in court over my work. To be fair though, there's not much that can be done to stop a crazy person from suing.
 

davedottcom

Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Im more confused now than when we started.If my job in the morning was to wire for a dining room lamp to be plugged in as the only means of lighting i am not sure how i would handle it
LOL!

Just do everything the code says to do, and what the Handbook says to do, and what the inspector tells you to do, and what the Local AHJ tells you to do, and what everyone in here tells you do.

Just follow that simple advice and you'll do fine!

;)

Dave
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Originally posted by jimwalker:
Roger ,i been to court many times and if i cant win i save the time and settle out of court.
This sounds like true experience. :D :D :D

Roger
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

This isn't some kind of a hobby is it?

Edit: You left out the wife Dave, man, you're gone a get it. :D

[ March 28, 2005, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 

jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

posted March 28, 2005 07:53 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is court?

Is it a good thing?

Do you get a prize?
Bob ,no
usually you do not get to pass GO or collect $200 and go directly to jail

What i do is keep a GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD in my wallet.Not joking it did work once :D
 

physis

Senior Member
Re: Switched Din. Rm. Outlet?

Jim, I can hardly believe it, but you actually just made it worse.
 
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