This is why electronic meter are so dangerous

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GoldDigger said:
Unlike a smart meter, which adds a high current contactor and the communication hardware. Which together affect both cost and safety, as well as perceived EMI pollution.
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Yup...the $60 includes the radio comm remote read hardware, but it's not very sophisticated. Smart Metering is already adding a lot to the cost of doing business and will likely do nothing to decrease any environmental impact. But it makes the rule makers feel SOOO...good! Test installations (one million test meters installed in Phoenix) have shown that initial interest in going online to see usage patterns is fairly high, but after a few months, the website hits drop to almost nothing. I think most people just like to keep on doing what they've always done. I'm personally not real excited about the utility deciding I should force my beautiful wife to get up at 3 AM to do laundry and cook dinner!:rant: Uh...that sounded kinda sexist. Sorry, honey.
 
meternerd said:
Yup...the $60 includes the radio comm remote read hardware, but it's not very sophisticated. Smart Metering is already adding a lot to the cost of doing business and will likely do nothing to decrease any environmental impact. But it makes the rule makers feel SOOO...good! Test installations (one million test meters installed in Phoenix) have shown that initial interest in going online to see usage patterns is fairly high, but after a few months, the website hits drop to almost nothing. I think most people just like to keep on doing what they've always done. I'm personally not real excited about the utility deciding I should force my beautiful wife to get up at 3 AM to do laundry and cook dinner!:rant: Uh...that sounded kinda sexist. Sorry, honey.
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Some appliances, like dishwashers, offer the option of delaying the start up to 8 hours from when you push the start button. That way hubby just has to remember to push the button before turning in.
If you use electric heat for the water, that actually can make a difference. Especially on the pots-and-pans or sani-rinse cycles.
 
My take on this thread is it's just more of the anti smart-meter fear mongering. Schlum is quick to point a few instances smart meter fires but neglects to also point out similar fires at a similar rate prior to the development of smart meters.

Here's a documented case of a meter exploding back in 1988: http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/4th/7/565.html
Here's another fire in 1998: http://articles.mcall.com/1998-10-21/news/3229217_1_electrical-vacant-flames

Meter fires have always been a risk, albeit a very small one. Go read the NFPA fire reports going back to the '90s. Fires originating at or around the electric meter have actually decreased from about 400 per year to only about 200 per year, however the number news reports of such fires have grown exponentially.

The only exception is the excessive failure rate demonstrated by certain Sensus brand meters. These have shown to have a fire risk far higher than historical norms and several utilities are swapping them out.
 
meternerd said:
I'm personally not real excited about the utility deciding I should force my beautiful wife to get up at 3 AM to do laundry and cook dinner!:rant: Uh...that sounded kinda sexist. Sorry, honey.
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And of course they are doing no such thing. Electricity on the spot market costs the utility a lot more during peak hours (usually late afternoon into early evening), so with time of use tariffs in place they charge consumers more for kWh's during that time. Your wife can cook and clean any time she wants, but it costs you more if she does it during peak hours. It's her/your choice.
 
Rampage_Rick said:
My take on this thread is it's just more of the anti smart-meter fear mongering. Schlum is quick to point a few instances smart meter fires but neglects to also point out similar fires at a similar rate prior to the development of smart meters.

Here's a documented case of a meter exploding back in 1988: http://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/4th/7/565.html
Here's another fire in 1998: http://articles.mcall.com/1998-10-21/news/3229217_1_electrical-vacant-flames

Meter fires have always been a risk, albeit a very small one. Go read the NFPA fire reports going back to the '90s. Fires originating at or around the electric meter have actually decreased from about 400 per year to only about 200 per year, however the number news reports of such fires have grown exponentially.

The only exception is the excessive failure rate demonstrated by certain Sensus brand meters. These have shown to have a fire risk far higher than historical norms and several utilities are swapping them out.
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I read both of the links and both said fire at at the meter panel. I guess I'm still suspicious of "exploding meters" when there is a fire at the meter panel. I'd like to see any pics of an actual exploded meter. Testing has been done by PG&E, So Cal Edison and several other utilities in addition to UL. Most were for arc flash information, but I have yet to see the meter itself explode and start a fire. Not saying it can't happen, but I think it's 99% hysteria and 1% fact. Still just my opinion, though.
 
meternerd said:
...I'd like to see any pics of an actual exploded meter. Testing has been done by PG&E, So Cal Edison and several other utilities in addition to UL. Most were for arc flash information, but I have yet to see the meter itself explode and start a fire. Not saying it can't happen, but I think it's 99% hysteria and 1% fact. Still just my opinion, though.
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That's where my opinion is.

We've done short-circuit current tests on watt-hour meters before. Passed upwards of 20kA through them. I hear tell the whole test assembly leaped into the air and the jar filled with smoke, but nothing came flying apart.
 
ggunn said:
And of course they are doing no such thing. Electricity on the spot market costs the utility a lot more during peak hours (usually late afternoon into early evening), so with time of use tariffs in place they charge consumers more for kWh's during that time. Your wife can cook and clean any time she wants, but it costs you more if she does it during peak hours. It's her/your choice.
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You're right. My bad....TOU metering is what we are talking about. Been around a long time. But Smart Metering takes it to a whole different level. Utilities that have installed smart meter systems are gaining experience in reliability, cost and maintenance factors. Many are not favorable. But time will tell.
Thanks for "slap down". I deserved it. Just makes me nervous when Big Brother continues to invade my privacy. OP was about electronic meter safety. My original opinion still stands...they are no less safe than older meters. It's the change out that creates the problems.
 
meternerd said:
You're right. My bad....TOU metering is what we are talking about. Been around a long time. But Smart Metering takes it to a whole different level. Utilities that have installed smart meter systems are gaining experience in reliability, cost and maintenance factors. Many are not favorable. But time will tell.
Thanks for "slap down". I deserved it. Just makes me nervous when Big Brother continues to invade my privacy. OP was about electronic meter safety. My original opinion still stands...they are no less safe than older meters. It's the change out that creates the problems.
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A slapdown was not what I intended, only a clarification. I didn't think you really believed that the utility was trying to make your wife cook and clean at 3AM. Privacy is an illusion, anyway. :D
 
iwire said:
5 days a week x 52 weeks a year x 40 years = 10,400 days. No days off, no vacations

300,000 meters / 10,400 = 28.8 meters per day or 3.6 meters per hour for an 8 hour shif

Your friend is amazing.
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I think literally incredible might be a more appropriate appellation........
 
meternerd said:
I read both of the links and both said fire at at the meter panel. I guess I'm still suspicious of "exploding meters" when there is a fire at the meter panel. I'd like to see any pics of an actual exploded meter. Testing has been done by PG&E, So Cal Edison and several other utilities in addition to UL. Most were for arc flash information, but I have yet to see the meter itself explode and start a fire. Not saying it can't happen, but I think it's 99% hysteria and 1% fact. Still just my opinion, though.
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http://woolwich.ca/en/resources/2012-15e.pdf
 
schlum said:
http://woolwich.ca/en/resources/2012-15e.pdf
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I looked at your link...the first pic of the meter cover blown off shows no evidence that it could have started any kind of fire. Without info on type of fault (meter base/ socket damage), my opinion remains that exploding meters causing fires is mostly a myth. Second pic is of an old A-base meter with a loose connection. Not related to the meter at all.

Thanks for the pics, though. If it is happening, I hope the industry finds a way to deal with it, because solid state meters are here to stay.
 
meternerd said:
I looked at your link...the first pic of the meter cover blown off shows no evidence that it could have started any kind of fire. Without info on type of fault (meter base/ socket damage), my opinion remains that exploding meters causing fires is mostly a myth. Second pic is of an old A-base meter with a loose connection. Not related to the meter at all.

Thanks for the pics, though. If it is happening, I hope the industry finds a way to deal with it, because solid state meters are here to stay.
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I don't even need to prove that meter can ignite fire in a house, just prove that it can explode is enough for me, there is meter in almost every room in a house, somes are in the kitchen, other are in children rooms, other in the living room. Anybody of your familie can be in a danger situation with those exploding meters.
 
schlum said:
I don't even need to prove that meter can ignite fire in a house, just prove that it can explode is enough for me, there is meter in almost every room in a house, somes are in the kitchen, other are in children rooms, other in the living room. Anybody of your familie can be in a danger situation with those exploding meters.
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There are houses with a meter in every room? Assuming that you mean that the one meter to a house can be in any room, that's not generally the case in the US; here meters are nearly always on an exterior wall.
 
schlum said:
I don't even need to prove that meter can ignite fire in a house, just prove that it can explode is enough for me, there is meter in almost every room in a house, somes are in the kitchen, other are in children rooms, other in the living room. Anybody of your familie can be in a danger situation with those exploding meters.
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Could you explain this? In my case, the house has only one utility meter - and it is ouside the house. What is this, "there is meter in almost every room in a house". That doesn't make any sense at all.

ice
 
iceworm said:
Could you explain this? In my case, the house has only one utility meter - and it is ouside the house. What is this, "there is meter in almost every room in a house". That doesn't make any sense at all.

ice
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Oh boy, you're not serious ? of course i did not mean that a house have meter in every room, but i saw where meter is a kitchen, other house in living room, and other house in a children room. In a big city, it's like that. I had 2 aparment that the meter were in the kitchen, one of my friend is in a room etc . In Montreal there are about 400,000 inside home Wake up please
 
schlum said:
Oh boy, you're not serious ? of course i did not mean that a house have meter in every room, but i saw where meter is a kitchen, other house in living room, and other house in a children room. In a big city, it's like that. I had 2 aparment that the meter were in the kitchen, one of my friend is in a room etc . In Montreal there are about 400,000 inside home Wake up please
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Excellent demeaning response.

News Flash:
I don't live in Montreal. I live in Rural Third-World America. I don't recall ever seeing a house or an apartment with the utility meter mounted on an inside the house/apartment wall. So, no, I didn't ( and still don't) have a clue as to what you were talking about.​

The indoor utility meters you are talking about must have been installed after the advent of remote reading meters. Otherwise if there had ever been an old style mechanical meter, the meter reader would have to knock and come inside to read the meter. I don't see that ever happening here. What does the reader do if there is no one home - keep coming back? And there would be severe resistance to letting an unknown person in one's house.

I'm not saying you are are wrong, rather, these are likely newer apartments (after the advent of remote reading meters) and it seems like really poor engineering to put the meters inside.

ice
 
schlum said:
Oh boy, you're not serious ? of course i did not mean that a house have meter in every room, but i saw where meter is a kitchen, other house in living room, and other house in a children room. In a big city, it's like that. I had 2 aparment that the meter were in the kitchen, one of my friend is in a room etc . In Montreal there are about 400,000 inside home Wake up please
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In the US, where we are, meters are almost universally outside. Before Smart Meters, nobody would let a POCO meter reader into their house, so the meter has to either be entirely outside or facing a viewing window or slot.
Apartment buildings where all of the meters could be in a common public area or in an electrical-only room where POCO has a key are a different story, but again in the US they are still most often outside.

PS: One can be awake without living in Canada, although YMMV.
 
iceworm said:
Excellent demeaning response.

News Flash:
I don't live in Montreal. I live in Rural Third-World America. I don't recall ever seeing a house or an apartment with the utility meter mounted on an inside the house/apartment wall. So, no, I didn't ( and still don't) have a clue as to what you were talking about.​

The indoor utility meters you are talking about must have been installed after the advent of remote reading meters. Otherwise if there had ever been an old style mechanical meter, the meter reader would have to knock and come inside to read the meter. I don't see that ever happening here. What does the reader do if there is no one home - keep coming back? And there would be severe resistance to letting an unknown person in one's house.

I'm not saying you are are wrong, rather, these are likely newer apartments (after the advent of remote reading meters) and it seems like really poor engineering to put the meters inside.

ice
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https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8vOmL44C7sQS0FSWThSazJHejQ&authuser=0

here the meters are in the kitchen
 
In montreal when you have, for example, 10 houses with mutual wall all together, only the first and tenth are alloyed to have the meter outside, the 8 other, the meters must be inside, that is the reglementation of the city
 
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