Three ways, the debate

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K8MHZ said:
Ask someone that is not related to the electrical trade if they ever notice which way the cover screws line up.
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Did you read what I wrote? I notice when a door trim isn't mitred properly, or a wall is rolling. Or the paint isn't cut in properly. But again, even if you don't consciously notice, I believe the average person unconsciously does. You aren't required to agree with it, but my guys are required to line the screws up along with a myriad of other items I consider good workmanship.
 
Strathead said:
Did you read what I wrote? I notice when a door trim isn't mitred properly, or a wall is rolling. Or the paint isn't cut in properly. But again, even if you don't consciously notice, I believe the average person unconsciously does. You aren't required to agree with it, but my guys are required to line the screws up along with a myriad of other items I consider good workmanship.
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The flip side of lining up the slots is doing so may make the screw too tight or too loose. I consider good workmanship proper tightening of screws based on torque, not how the slots line up.

I did read what you wrote, and people do notice things like paint and miter flaws, but I seriously doubt the average customer would notice which way the slot was oriented on a wall plate.

More likely they would notice if the cover was cracked, or the screw wasn't turned in all the way.
 
K8MHZ said:
The flip side of lining up the slots is doing so may make the screw too tight or too loose. I consider good workmanship proper tightening of screws based on torque, not how the slots line up.

I did read what you wrote, and people do notice things like paint and miter flaws, but I seriously doubt the average customer would notice which way the slot was oriented on a wall plate.

More likely they would notice if the cover was cracked, or the screw wasn't turned in all the way.
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Or when using the softer plates, over tightening can make the plates look warped- stands out big time on multi gang switches

It seems that the 6-32's have a habit of bottoming out with the slot in a roughly "2 o'clock to 8 o'clock angle"......

Which, BTW, everyone knows is the correct orientation.:p
 
Strathead said:
Did you read what I wrote? I notice when a door trim isn't mitred properly, or a wall is rolling. Or the paint isn't cut in properly. But again, even if you don't consciously notice, I believe the average person unconsciously does. You aren't required to agree with it, but my guys are required to line the screws up along with a myriad of other items I consider good workmanship.
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i notice when the sun rises on a different angle from the day before. that really bugs me. :p

K8MHZ said:
The flip side of lining up the slots is doing so may make the screw too tight or too loose. I consider good workmanship proper tightening of screws based on torque, not how the slots line up.
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are there any torq specs with covers? if there were, a torx screw head would solve this slot seizure issue :thumbsup:

you tighten based on torq? what tool do you use?
thursday night NFL will be on thursdays, but sometime its on saturdays, does this bug anyone?
 
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FionaZuppa said:
i notice when the sun rises on a different angle from the day before. that really bugs me. :p


are there any torq specs with covers? if there were, a torx screw head would solve this slot seizure issue :thumbsup:

you tighten based on torq? what tool do you use?
thursday night NFL will be on thursdays.
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I use my fingernails and have them set at 10 inch lbs. for #6 screws.
 
K8MHZ said:
Ask someone that is not related to the electrical trade if they ever notice which way the cover screws line up.
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iwire said:
Bingo

Other than the OCD home owners of high end homes looking at things before the home is furnished I doubt it really comes up
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I've never oriented the screws all horizontal or vertical. I tighten until tight as others have said.

Only once, in the early '90's when we did a large house for a builder's daughter did anyone ever question it. My father told the builder to buy his daughter a screwdriver and a level. (seriously)
 
K8MHZ said:
Ask someone that is not related to the electrical trade if they ever notice which way the cover screws line up.
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"Oh my, this a fabulous home! Huge open concept, beautiful appliances, magnificent hardwood floors, and at $850,000, it's well under budget. BUT...

Those electrical coverplates with all the screws pointing all different directions are a TOTAL DEAL BREAKER!"

....said no one ever.

Not leaving tool marks on the screws or fingerprint smudges on the wall are more important. and warping/cracking coverplates is no bueno, especially in older high end homes with impossible to find designer brass and wood coverplates.
 
Strathead said:
Did you read what I wrote? I notice when a door trim isn't mitred properly, or a wall is rolling. Or the paint isn't cut in properly. But again, even if you don't consciously notice, I believe the average person unconsciously does. You aren't required to agree with it, but my guys are required to line the screws up along with a myriad of other items I consider good workmanship.
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Finish carpentry, especially cabinets, there can be a 1/64" difference in handle heights or inset, and it is very noticeable. The difference there is people dont spend $20,000 on coverplates.
 
My MIL helped my wife paper our bedroom years ago. I walked in that night and noticed something not right. Being the sometimes not so dumb guy, I never said a thing. A few weeks later my MIL was giving a hard time about being unobservant and failing to notice one strip of paper was on upside down. Pattern was running the wrong direction. We notice a lot, and accept a lot.
 
Strathead said:
I see the smile, but seriously, doesn't it make sense? I have trouble with the concept that way equates to wire, because then an SPDT switch would also be a three way.
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A SPDT and a "three way" are the same thing.:huh:

K8MHZ said:
Ask someone that is not related to the electrical trade if they ever notice which way the cover screws line up.
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I notice a lot of little things, cover screws is not one of them unless maybe they are loose or over tightened.
 
Strathead said:
Pure opinion, but either all horizontal or all vertical is a requirement on my projects. I prefer vertical, but won't dictate.
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And if I worked for you I would do what you asked, that's the deal he runs the job makes the choices.

If you worked for me that issue, like many others would be left to your desecration.




My reasoning is this...(again purely my opinion). I believe our brains are very powerful things. Think of how amazing it is that we can calculate the direction, acceleration and curve of a baseball within the first few feet after it leaves a bat and be on the way to its destination instantly. In the same sense, when people walk through a room, while things may not register in the front part of their brain, I believe they "notice". Among those things are uniformity, level, plumb, and minor imperfections, including the alignment of the screws. It all adds up to a feeling of "good" or "bad" and of course various stages in between. The closer to good the less likely Architects, owners, inspectors are going to be critical. That is well worth the zero extra time it takes to line up your screws.
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Your company, your choice. We just have different views. :)

I have a real hard time believing an architect or inspector is going to judge a job based on plate screw orientation.

Make sure the lights are in the right place and outlets are live and your gonna do fine.
 
The first time I ever even paid attention to slot orientation was when I first got into the IBEW.

I was told that lining up the slots was a union thing. I was told that if I went into a building that had all the slots lined up, the electrical installation was a union job. If I was in a building that all but one or two slots lined up, I was told that it would be a union installation that a non-union electrician had worked on after the installation.

When I first heard that, I noticed how the slots were in just about every building I was in. Now, I don't even care.
 
iwire said:
And if I worked for you I would do what you asked, that's the deal he runs the job makes the choices.

If you worked for me that issue, like many others would be left to your desecration.






Your company, your choice. We just have different views. :)

I have a real hard time believing an architect or inspector is going to judge a job based on plate screw orientation.

Make sure the lights are in the right place and outlets are live and your gonna do fine.
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I respect and totally agree with the first part. For the second, I think you missed my point. It isn't that they notice it, it is that their brains notice it and it has the potential to sub consciously affect their feelings and mood. Even still, that is just my opinion.

What I have always wondered is,, has the government done a multi million dollar study yet to find out if you actually get more wet running in to raindrops when you run or raindrops falling on your head when you walk. :p
 
Strathead said:
What I have always wondered is,, has the government done a multi million dollar study yet to find out if you actually get more wet running in to raindrops when you run or raindrops falling on your head when you walk. :p
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No, but Myth busters did an episode on the same problem for driving in a convertible.
Above a certain speed (set by the geometry of the windshield) you do not get wet at all.

On foot there is no windshield and it comes down to whether you want to keep your front or the top of your head dry. :)
Your front surface will intercept the same amount of rain regardless of your speed if there is no wind. The only variables are the density of the rain and the distance traveled.



Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
Strathead said:
For the second, I think you missed my point. It isn't that they notice it, it is that their brains notice it and it has the potential to sub consciously affect their feelings and mood.
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I did read it, I just don't see it the same way. It sounds like a feng shui kind of thing and I don't believe in that either.


But I am sure you started your business to do things your way and I respect that.
 
iwire said:
I did read it, I just don't see it the same way. It sounds like a feng shui kind of thing and I don't believe in that either.


But I am sure you started your business to do things your way and I respect that.
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For the record I don't own and the first contractor I worked for expected the screws to line up. The thing that gets me is that it doesn't take one moment longer and bending of plates and cracking are excuses, that are easily prevented. The cover only needs to be snug to the wall so that it doesn't rattle. that is easily accomplished. .
 
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