- Location
- Massachusetts
We wire many in NM, but the feeders to unit panels often had to be MC because NM could not go vertical between floors outside of the units.
Use 120 ONLY to feed apartments
- Thread starter sgunsel
- Start date
- Status
We wire many in NM, but the feeders to unit panels often had to be MC because NM could not go vertical between floors outside of the units.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
240.24(B) requires what you describe regardless of watt-hour meter location. Were you thinking of putting panels in the hallway, and supplying multiple units from a single panel? Clever.
Last edited:
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Why do I get the feeling I'm on the cusp of a horrible discovery?
Can you elaborate a little more?
- Location
- Massachusetts
Why do I get the feeling I'm on the cusp of a horrible discovery?
Can you elaborate a little more?
I think that may changed when they eliminated the height restrictions and added the 'no NM in suspended ceilings'
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Looking at the 99, any building above 3 floors couldn't have NM at all. Am I misreading that?
- Location
- Massachusetts
I would have to break out the 99 MA amendments but we could use NM on any floor and it could pass from one floor to another in the same tenant.
But other cables going between floors had to be armored.
I should never have said anything because it seems to be a MA only thing
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
240.24(B) requires what you describe regardless of watt-hour meter location. Were you thinking of putting panels in the hallway, and supplying multiple units from a single panel? Clever.
That was exactly what I had in mind.
Funny thing is the house appears to provide the heat, water heat, and all other significant energy but wants meters on these feeds that probably have more minimum charge per month than what the energy charge amounts to in most cases.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Here in MA there is no choice, new or heavily remodeled dwelling units get individual metering.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Location
- Massachusetts
'Cause it's the rule.
Why do I have to install a neutral at a switch box?
Of course not. Why ya busting my chops?
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
'Cause it's the rule.
Why do I have to install a neutral at a switch box?
Of course not. Why ya busting my chops?
Not busting your chops, just trying to understand reasoning of MA. May not get very far with that though. Some local rules are not always easy to figure out a good reason for their existence.
jaggedben
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern California
- Occupation
- Solar and Energy Storage Installer
Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm used to thinking of a "60 amp single phase panel" as having two bussbars, each of which are rated at 60 amps. If the apartments only need 60amps, I see no reason why you need to connect the two bussbars together. Just use only one of the bussbars and leave the other one unused. Even if they are 2-space load centers you could use tandem breakers to get a circuit for lighting and a circuit for receptacles, which it sounds like is all that's needed.
This is leaving aside kwired's comments as to whether or not it is a good economic choice on the wiring.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
kwired probably has answered his question unknowingly, most states do not allow landlords to make money on utilities unless they are a utility theirself. Forcing them to meter each unit seperately eliminates that. Lawmakers in MA just re-enforced the exsisting laws, or removed an exemption if there was one. Extended stay type hotels is considered transient housing, so that may be the way they get around it.
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
Re-read your post, and figured out you are saying the POCO minimum charge, there again that may be the reason why, the POCO's pushed through the rule to make them more money.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
But the situation in this thread the house is apparently paying for heating, and water heating which is likely the majority of energy used in these particular dwellings, yet it is law to separately meter the electrical energy used for any remaining energy needs in the dwelling(s)??:?
hillbilly1
Senior Member
- Location
- North Georgia mountains
- Occupation
- Owner/electrical contractor
The POCO has better lobbiest's, the majority of rules are politically motivated, not so much as for safety or saving the enviroment. If a product doesn't sell, make it legally required. There are lots of electrical products out there that are not efficient to use or sell, but with a stroke of a pen, are required. We just have to figure out how to still make money while complying.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
I'd say that this and other silly laws are the result of the general public being ignorant enough on the subject that it does not matter to them therefore the law gets passed because of lobbyists that make it sound like the right thing to do.
They only legislation that gets a lot of public attention is when there are enough people that have an interest from both sides of the issue, otherwise it usually goes somewhat unnoticed.
- Status