Wet Romex Usable?

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satcom said:
Installing cable that was open in the back of a pick-up should tell the hole story of what kind of a craftsman they are.
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Objection, your honor! Assumes facts not in evidence.

If it were proven that rain exposure of an intact roll of cable is detrimental, I'd agree with you.
 
satcom Post #118 said:
Lets see 30 plus years working in the trade, and out of thousands of homes, not once wired a house that the nm got wet. there are however, installation crews out there that would let it happen, the real question is are they electricians?

The general work produced in home wiring, has been reduced to a production labor standard not a craftsman standard. where they had pride in their work.

Installing cable that was open in the back of a pick-up should tell the hole story of what kind of a craftsman they are.
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:roll:

satcom Post #119 said:
Lets see 35 plus years working in the trade, and out of thousands of homes, not once wired a house that the nm got wet. there are however, installation crews out there that would let it happen, the real question is are they electricians?
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Dude, you gained five years experience between post #118 and #119 :confused:
 
satcom said:
Lets see 35 plus years working in the trade, and out of thousands of homes, not once wired a house that the nm got wet.
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are you 100% sure of that statement?think you should have added "as far as you knew".unless you make your own nmb how do you know that somewhere along the line that it wasnt in a flatbed truck that got caught in the rain or was left on the dock?when you got it it was dried out
 
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zdog said:
are you 100% sure of that statement?think you should have added "as far as you knew".unless you make your own nmb how do you know that somewhere along the line that it wasnt in a flatbed truck that got caught in the rain or was left on the dock?when you got it it was dried out
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The cable boxes were closed, and any water damage would of stain the boxes, today they pack it in the srink wrap, I guess for the pick up hacks so it will not get wet in the rain.
 
satcom said:
The cable boxes were closed, and any water damage would of stain the boxes, today they pack it in the srink wrap, I guess for the pick up hacks so it will not get wet in the rain.
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Have you ever seen a warning do not get wet sign on a package of NM? Your going the wrong way on this subject... its fine to let it get wet... Unless of course you can find a NEC code section that would not allow it or proof from a manufacture that it cannot get wet... Good luck on this journey...:grin:
 
stickboy1375 said:
....... Unless of course you can find a NEC code section that would not allow it or proof from a manufacture that it cannot get wet... Good luck on this journey...:grin:
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How about 110.3(B)?

National Electrical Manufacturer?s Association (NEMA) guidelines state, ?Any wire or cable that is listed for dry locations only, such as type NM-B cable, should be replaced if it has been exposed to water.? These guidelines must be treated as manufacturer?s installation instructions.
:smile:
 
Minuteman said:
:roll:



Dude, you gained five years experience between post #118 and #119 :confused:
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I see this often in the yellow page ads saw one that started out with three years the next year it was 5 then the next it was 10 saw the guy at the supply house with his new partner who had 5 years so I guess they figured 5+5=10
 
I think you guys should listen to me. I'm usually right and when I'm not I'm really close. Also being from California automatically gives me enormous credibility in these matters.

Besides wealth and good looks, I have something else many of you do not: I have actual experience wiring houses. Lots of houses.

I have probably wired over 100 houses with Romex that at some point was exposed to water. None of these houses ever burst into flames or had mildew problems or had wires that spontaneously corroded or had unexplained power failures.

It's a non issue.

The Theoretical Electricians are stubborn by nature, they shake their heads disapprovingly and clutch their code books close to their chests for comfort. The Practical Electricians actually have to wire houses and learned from experience that wet romex has never caused a problem.

The Theoreticians have no proof, there's not a single documented case of a problem with wet Romex, but once they take a position, no matter how ludicrous, they can never be dissuaded.
 
Corrosion and failure can happen...

Corrosion and failure can happen...

Now I wish I had taken a picture.

Just went through the effort of upgrading all the wiring in my house. The outlet for my dishwasher was a single gang box, surface mounted on the floor boards in the dishwasher opening. It was wired with the old cloth covered predecessor to NM-B. cable came out the side if the box for 3 inches, then down through a hole in the floor, through a few floor joists and on to the next box. Best I can tell, this outlet was added during a remodel around 1958. The cable had been exposed to water off and on over the years from sink and supply-hose leaks, probably a dishwasher overflow or two as well. The ground wire was corroded through at the bend through the floor boards . No idea how long it had been that way.

I know the cloth will let more water in than the jacket on NM-B would, but it seems to me the laws chemistry are going to function about the same way, just take longer. This house had a water softener at one time, maybe that accelerated the process. As was pointed out earlier, it's not the water that corrodes copper, it's all the other contaminants that get carried with the water.

Paul
 
Fire Alarm said:
I have probably wired over 100 houses with Romex that at some point was exposed to water. None of these houses ever burst into flames or had mildew problems or had wires that spontaneously corroded or had unexplained power failures.
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I'm I to understand that you keep records of the houses that you wired with Romex saturated with water and then you perform periodic inspections to make sure there are no problems?

Would it be safe to say that you wire them and if you don't hear of anything happening you just assume that everything worked out well.

The real problem is this, most electricians don't have the time to go around testing the houses that they have wired in years past so they must rely on code and information provided by the manufacturers.

Unless you have actually went back and tested the wiring in these homes after a period of time ( say 10 years ) then your practical advice and assumptions are meaningless. There may have been problems that you are not aware of.

Just something to think about. :confused:
 
growler said:
I'm I to understand that you keep records of the houses that you wired with Romex saturated with water and then you perform periodic inspections to make sure there are no problems?

Would it be safe to say that you wire them and if you don't hear of anything happening you just assume that everything worked out well.

The real problem is this, most electricians don't have the time to go around testing the houses that they have wired in years past so they must rely on code and information provided by the manufacturers.

Unless you have actually went back and tested the wiring in these homes after a period of time ( say 10 years ) then your practical advice and assumptions are meaningless. There may have been problems that you are not aware of.

Just something to think about. :confused:
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Boy, the Theoretical Electricians never give up. You claim I have no proof that wet Romex does not create problems and you hope that this diversion will make me forget that you have not bothered to provide the scientific proof of your case that you require of me.

The Theoreticians are very good asking "what if" and "where's your scientific proof". The Theoretical Electricians don't believe the Practical Electricians know what they're talking about, since they don't conduct yearly surveys on all their jobs.

But it's a great show, it's absolutely astonishing to hear the Theoreticians claim that something causes such dire problems, when the Practical Electricians know that it does not.

The Theoretical Electricians have been whipped into a frenzy. The Practical Electricians just smile knowingly and go about the business of wiring houses.
 
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many years ago we wired a 378 unit condo project----two ten story buildings using nm cable. i know that much of this wiring was soaked by south florida rains prior than the building being dried in. the economy went down and the second building sat unfinished for about a year -- again, much of the installation exposed to water during rain storms. we finished these buildings and provided changes and any service work to these building for over two years after they were sold and occupied ---- never had a problem. only two electrical problems during the period was 1) picture hanger screw hit a nm cable. 2) a threshhold screw hot a sub feed... ten years??? i don't agree with that period of time! it might take a few months for all the moisture to evaporate from the cable once the building is fully dried in. if it operates after it's dry i wouldn't expect any future problems. now please understand--i'm in the "take a chance catigory" type electricians............ but remember----- there's a saying that if you are making a mistake here and there--your not taking enough chances!!!
 
fire alarm...be intellectually honest....you don't know how wet romex will react....it never rains in southern california...and your band of third world marauders don't even take showers:D
 
Unless you have actually went back and tested the wiring in these homes after a period of time ( say 10 years ) then your practical advice and assumptions are meaningless
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On that note, you don't know anything that you have ever done is not a fire/shock hazard unless you watch it 24/7.:)


Lots of stuff CAN happen in life....but it aint likely.
 
I have removed alot of old romex that was exsposed to the elements for 20+ years and for the most part the copper was still in good shape I have seen a few wires that were greenish but nothing that would lead me to believe that a little water will melt copper wires.I am looking at the building across the street built in the 60s and low and behold what do I see but copper flashing on the roof why it should have rotted away years ago.
 
wbalsam1 said:
How about 110.3(B)?

National Electrical Manufacturer?s Association (NEMA) guidelines state, ?Any wire or cable that is listed for dry locations only, such as type NM-B cable, should be replaced if it has been exposed to water.? These guidelines must be treated as manufacturer?s installation instructions.
:smile:
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How bout a link? so we can all read it for ourselves...:roll:
 
I wrote an email to Southwire about getting NM wet, here is the response... (I dont know if every NM manufacture would respond the same, but this is Southwires feelings about it...)






NM cable is a dry location cable. It depends on how it has been subjected to water as to whether it is ok or not. NM is installed in houses under construction and sometimes get water on the jacket. This will not affect the cable.
However, if the ends of the cable are submerged in water or left open so that water can get inside the cable, it may not be ok. The paper that surrounds the grounding conductor can "wick" the water into the cable. If it is just on the ends and the cable dries out immediately, there should be no problem as long as it is just tap water or rain water. If there are chemicals in the water, they can cause the copper to corrode. This could be a problem.
Again, it just depends on the situation.

Regards,
Paul White
Southwire Company
 
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