What size plug and receptacle?

Status
Not open for further replies.
charlie b said:
here is my take on one tricky issue:I submit that you can ignore the "permanently connected" phrase on the label. It is not an electrical statement (i.e., the electrical information appears below, under its own heading.) It refers to the nature of the appliance, stating that it is capable of being used in that way, and not stating that it is required to be used in that way.
Click to expand...

It is a label, the unit is listed and 110.3(B) requires we follow the labeling.

I see nothing in 110.3(B) that says we can discount certain items if we decide that they are not 'electrical statements'

Telling me an item is for dry locations only is not really an electrical statement but I still have to follow it.
 
augie47 said:
My thoughts go along with charlie b's Post #19 except it seems that it would still be a violation of 210.23(A)(1)
Click to expand...

There is no violation if these are individual 20A branch circuits. 210.23(A) only applies to circuits with two or more receptacles or outlets.
 
George Stolz said:
The vendor is wrong. 210.23(A)(1) and 210.23 dictate that if they want to roll it around and plug it in anywhere, it should have an MCA of 16A or less. If you install dedicated circuits around the place, keep the odd plug, and supply them with 30A receptacles and 25A circuits that would be okay.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that be 20 amps or less? I'm assuming that MCA implies the 25% has already been added.
 
So Bob what are you asking. You can't use cord and plug yet the owners are great clients so you want to please them. Then do what you have to- bend the code and wire them up so they are happy. It seems there is no way to do it correctly and please the clients.

I will absolve you and promise not to tell everyone. :lol:
 
iwire said:
The unit is on wheels, it shipped with a six foot cord on it and an L5-30P on the end of the cord but the cord is European and the plug is American a Pass & Seymour.

My hunch is the that the unit is foreign made and when it arrived here the US vender put the Pass & Seymour plug on it.

Now the vender is telling the customer all I have to do is provide an 'adapter cord' with a male 5-20P on one end and a female L5-30C on the other end so that the unit can plug into a standard outlet.

Keep in mind I have about 20 of these to do so I am trying to get it straight first.
Click to expand...

First off, I don't see how the customer can be upset with you over something they did, especially if they want it done to code. They should have asked you first, having gotten the information from the vendor before ordering them.
That being said, I would ask them how much/often they plan on rolling them to different areas. If you can get a constant path where they will be along/to, I would either install dedicated circuits and put a single 5-20R. If the plug cap was added after it was mfg. I see nothing wrong with changing them to 5-20P, but that might create other problems with them plugging them in just anywhere. I suppose the better way would be to just install L5-30R and just use the cap that is on the cord.
In any event, it couldn't hurt to sit down with the customer and explain your predicament.
 
iwire said:
It is a label, the unit is listed and 110.3(B) requires we follow the labeling.
Click to expand...
No, 110.3(B) tells us we must install and use the item in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling. The phrase "permanently connected" is not an instruction. Get out the installation instructions, or the Operations and Maintenance Manual, and see what they have to say.
 
I just called the company in NC and they said it is often wired cord and plug but it is not design to be cord and plug.
 
david luchini said:
There is no violation if these are individual 20A branch circuits. 210.23(A) only applies to circuits with two or more receptacles or outlets.
Click to expand...

david, you are correct... my error... my mind was thinking about the "ability to plug it in anywhere" and I did not think about a dedicated circuit.

It's an interesting dilemma. I would think if you changed the cord cap it would technically be "altering listed equipment". Since 210.23 pretty much narrows you to a dedicated circuit it seems and you might as well install the correct matching receptacle.
That said, there is room for discussion as to "MCA" being the "load" as infinity mentions.
I think, were it my customer, I would express my concerns about installing anything but a dedicated circuit, but if they desired, I would
make a "adapter" so they could use it on there 20 amp circuits and let
time prove my point.
 
augie47 said:
That said, there is room for discussion as to "MCA" being the "load" as infinity mentions.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's an interesting one. I think that section says the "rating" of any one piece of equipment not fastened in place shall not exceed 80% of the rating of the branch circuit.

I would call the MCA the "rating" of the unit, so I think George is right that the MCA would have to be 16 or less to install one on a multi-outlet branch circuit.
 
Bob:
I was poking around at Arneg websites and found only three "laval" models, and am assuming the 5'-11" model would be the Laval 6 on your label. The data sheet was a little different in that it listed MCA at 22.6A and MOP of 30A. It did have a heading of "permanent connected" on the data sheet.
 
I couldn't in good conscience put these all on 20 amp cord ends. That 18.6 amps is going to start frying cord ends/receps when they start loosening up/get half pulled out, etc. Then this huge customer of yours will start calling asking why everything is burning up. They won't remember the vendor told you to do it, they'll just think your incompetent.

I'd use 30 amp all the way, maybe even twistlock.

I guess the question is, do you want to be the *ss now and call the vendor out on this hokey setup or be the *ss later when everything starts burning up? Seems pretty clearcut to me...
 
iwire said:
The unit is on wheels, it shipped with a six foot cord on it and an L5-30P on the end of the cord but the cord is European and the plug is American a Pass & Seymour.

My hunch is the that the unit is foreign made and when it arrived here the US vender put the Pass & Seymour plug on it.
Click to expand...
Top left corner says "Made IN THE USA."

Any chance contacting the manufacturer and having them weigh in?
 
Last edited:
david luchini said:
I would call the MCA the "rating" of the unit, so I think George is right that the MCA would have to be 16 or less to install one on a multi-outlet branch circuit.
Click to expand...

Do you have any documentation or code article to back that up?

IMO this would fall under 440.4(B) where the MCA is definitely not the running current of the unit.

440.4 Marking on Hermetic Refrigerant Motor-Compressors and Equipment.
(B) Multimotor and Combination-Load Equipment. Multimotor and combination-load equipment shall be provided with a visible nameplate marked with the maker's name, the rating in volts, frequency and number of phases, minimum supply circuit conductor ampacity, the maximum rating of the branch-circuit short-circuit and ground-fault protective device, and the short-circuit current rating of the motor controllers or industrial control panel. The ampacity shall be calculated by using Part IV and counting all the motors and other loads that will be operated at the same time. The branch-circuit short-circuit and ground-fault protective device rating shall not exceed the value calculated by using Part III. Multimotor or combination-load equipment for use on two or more circuits shall be marked with the above information for each circuit.
Click to expand...
 
infinity said:
Do you have any documentation or code article to back that up?

IMO this would fall under 440.4(B) where the MCA is definitely not the running current of the unit.
Click to expand...

No, this is my opinion. 210.23(A) doesn't say anything about "running current" of the unit. It says the "rating" of the unit. The MCA is the only thing listed on the nameplate that would appear to be a "rating." In addition, the branch circuit "load" as determined by 220.3 is based on the MCA of the refrigeration equipment by reference to Article 440, Part IV. In my mind, that is the "rating" of the equipment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top