Why we can't compete with handy man.

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OregonSE said:
You could be the President of the United States and the inventer of electricity here in Oregon and that would not give you the right to do any electrical work.Non licensed candymen here are fined heavy for doing any electrical work WITH OUT A LICENSE.NO LICENSE=NO RIGHT TO DO ANY ELECTRCAL.exc;Your own property. In Oregon the fact that you may be an electrical engineer means nothing when it comes to doing electrical work for anybody. In Oregon,A painter or sheet rocker has the same right as you.GET A LICENSE.In Oregon,we do paint all handymen withy the same brush.
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A current penalty matrix for Oregon for unlicensed work
http://www.cbs.state.or.us/external/bcd/programs/enforcement/penalty_matrix.pdf
 
I frankly think the OP did mis-label their post and I also beleive some have gone way over the top as to what the Handi-man said...
 
LarryFine said:
If the ballast had been a multi-voltage, there would have been a 120v tap already. ;)
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The same man that did this rewired in the new building the UPS in computer room. We wired in the 208 20 amp receptacle called for on the print. When they got the unit it turned into needing a 120 volt 30 amp. No need to call us , he can do this himself. Lots of smoke and 3 grand UPS . Looked it up on line with the IT man. Same man also wired up a 3 phase motor in lab to a pigtail saying ground, neutral and 2 hots. Wonder how long they can afford him.
 
OregonSE said:
You could be the President of the United States and the inventer of electricity here in Oregon and that would not give you the right to do any electrical work.Non licensed candymen here are fined heavy for doing any electrical work WITH OUT A LICENSE.NO LICENSE=NO RIGHT TO DO ANY ELECTRCAL.exc;Your own property. In Oregon the fact that you may be an electrical engineer means nothing when it comes to doing electrical work for anybody. In Oregon,A painter or sheet rocker has the same right as you.GET A LICENSE.In Oregon,we do paint all handymen withy the same brush.
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OregonSE said:
A current penalty matrix for Oregon for unlicensed work
http://www.cbs.state.or.us/external/bcd/programs/enforcement/penalty_matrix.pdf
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Hear, hear!

I'm guessing by your screen name that you have a Supervising Electrician license? I just have my Oregon JW and my Washington JW and Administrator license, but by all accounts I hear that the Oregon Supervisor test is very difficult. Which means of course that a handyman doing electrical work for money needs to have one in order to be a legit electrical contractor.

Have you had BOLI or an inspector swing by any of your jobsites to check licenses? I've been "carded" several times; three times during my apprenticeship, and twice so far as a JW. Every time I've encountered a license-checker, they've always been straightforward: "Hi, I'm so-and-so from Oregon BOLI. This is my card with my contact information. I am performing a license check in this area. May I see your license please?" I'm always happy to show them and I always thank them for diligently doing license checks. Wherever my license fees are going, I'm glad that at least part of them go to licensing enforcement.
 
handy10 said:
I have a van and several thousand dollars worth of tools. I have $1,000,000 of liability insurance. I get permits when they are required. I realise that times are tough, but there are handymen who know something about wiring. I find it offensive to paint all of us with the same brush.
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Laws must be different where you are. Here you must have a license to pull a permit and a handyman cant be a contractor b/c without a license all contracts are illegal. And here permits are required for all work.

I have a baseball and glove, but that doesnt make me a major leauge pitcher!
 
handy10 said:
You know, I am a handyman. I hired a licensed electrician to put some new circuits in my house. However, when it comes to attaching a fixture to a box, I simply am not going to pay for a licensed electrician. Some of the statements above are simply not true. I have a PhD in engineering with quite a lot of electrical theory (which is somewhat worthless when running circuits in an old house). Moreover, I have taken a course on NEC 2008 at the local community college. I have a van and several thousand dollars worth of tools. I have $1,000,000 of liability insurance. I get permits when they are required. I realise that times are tough, but there are handymen who know something about wiring. I find it offensive to paint all of us with the same brush.
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Being a competent electrician requires study in three distinct areas and you seem to have only touched on two of them.

1) Electrical Theory
2) NEC
3) Electrical Skills (Only learned properly thru apprenticeship)

As a Master Electrician who started out with a B.S. and M.S. in electrical engineering (Virginia Tech), I know that you can have an understanding of electrical theory and the ability to memorize/understand the NEC and think you know something about being an electrician. After completing my apprenticeship, I realized how much I DID NOT KNOW when I started. After getting my licenses, I still had a lot more to learn from OJT. Still learning (especially here).

Mark
 
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busman said:
Being a competent electrician requires study in three distinct areas and you seem to have only touched on two of them.

1) Electrical Theory
2) NEC
3) Electrical Skills (Only learned properly thru apprenticeship)

As a Master Electrician who started out with a B.S. and M.S. in electrical engineering (Virginia Tech), I know that you can have an understanding of electrical theory and the ability to memorize/understand the NEC and think you know something about being an electrician. After completing my apprenticeship, I realized how much I DID NOT KNOW when I started. After getting my licenses, I still had a lot more to learn from OJT. Still learning (especially here).

Mark
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Thank you busman! I have tried to mellow as the years go by but every time I hear a handyman, EE, homeowner or anybody else say...."oh yeah, I know how to do wiring. I don't need a license," it make my blood pressure go through the roof. I'll stop here before I say something that will get me thrown off this forum.
 
stevenje said:
Thank you busman! I have tried to mellow as the years go by but every time I hear a handyman, EE, homeowner or anybody else say...."oh yeah, I know how to do wiring. I don't need a license," it make my blood pressure go through the roof. I'll stop here before I say something that will get me thrown off this forum.
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Same thing goes the other way too, having an electrical license and owning an IR camera does not make you a thermagrapher, or downloading some software does not mean you should be doing arc flash or coordination studies. EE's have to deal with the same "DIY" type competetion from under qualified people.
 
handy10 said:
You know, I am a handyman. I hired a licensed electrician to put some new circuits in my house. However, when it comes to attaching a fixture to a box, I simply am not going to pay for a licensed electrician. Some of the statements above are simply not true. I have a PhD in engineering with quite a lot of electrical theory (which is somewhat worthless when running circuits in an old house). Moreover, I have taken a course on NEC 2008 at the local community college. I have a van and several thousand dollars worth of tools. I have $1,000,000 of liability insurance. I get permits when they are required. I realise that times are tough, but there are handymen who know something about wiring. I find it offensive to paint all of us with the same brush.
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Thats all well and good , as last accounts I had a license is not required to change existing plumbing and electrical fixtures at least around here . In fact some new house wiring jobs want it priced without installing fixtures. If I were you though , I would become familiar with all the violations you might see inside a fixture box . Like cables ran in a knockout without a clamp, no ground wire or metal box not grounded , box loose or not approved for ceiling fan , number of conductors exceeds box fill allowance for the box , and the list goes on and on. You see there is a little more to it than slapping the fixture in , and guess who will get the blame when something goes wrong . .:grin:
 
I don't remember ever seeing completely code-compliant work done by handyman

But

What if there is some good handyman work out there and I either didn't see it or didn't recognize it as being done by a handyman?

But

the HO is taking a bigger chance hiring a handyman than he is hiring an electrician.
 
handy10 said:
You know, I am a handyman. I hired a licensed electrician to put some new circuits in my house. However, when it comes to attaching a fixture to a box, I simply am not going to pay for a licensed electrician. Some of the statements above are simply not true. I have a PhD in engineering with quite a lot of electrical theory (which is somewhat worthless when running circuits in an old house). Moreover, I have taken a course on NEC 2008 at the local community college. I have a van and several thousand dollars worth of tools. I have $1,000,000 of liability insurance. I get permits when they are required. I realise that times are tough, but there are handymen who know something about wiring. I find it offensive to paint all of us with the same brush.
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State of Illinois
Approved CEU Courses: None
State Board: Department of Professional & Occupational Regulation
320 W. Washington Street, 3rd Floor
Springfield, IL 62786
(217) 785-0800 Fax: (217) 782-7645
www.dpr.state.il.us
Licensing Requirements: No licensing of electricians, contractors or inspectors at the state level.
Continuing Education Requirements: N/A
NEC Adoption Date: There is no statewide adoption of the NEC.
Notes: N/A
Date Updated: October 2009
Stay up to date with your state's recent Code Activity by visiting the Code Alerts Website: www.nema.org/stds/fieldreps/codealerts/

handy10
As you can see there is no license required in your state , so you don't have to pay a licensed Electrician for any reason at all.

It seem's to me that your state does not care about Electrical saftey so you can do all the Electrical work you want in your state.

In my state massachusetts you must be a licensed Electrician to perform any Electrical work, and that includes installing light fixture's Recptacles and switches, and you must pull permits and have the work inspected by the Electrical inspector Who is allso required to be a licensed Electrician.
It has been that way since 1915,.
Changing fixture's is not a handymans job Its a Licensed Electricians job.
 
480sparky said:
Fiddle...violin.... same thing.:roll:
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Not really...

Fiddle has a more generalized meaning than violin. Whereas violin refers to a specific instrument, fiddle may be used to refer to a violin or any member of a general category of similar stringed instruments played with a horsehair bow, such as the Hardanger fiddle, the Byzantine lira, the Chinese erhu, the Welsh crwth, the Apache Tzii'edo' a 'tl, the cello in the context of a Scottish violin/cello duo ("wee fiddle and big fiddle"), the double bass ("bull fiddle" or "bass fiddle"), and so on.


















http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiddle

Now you know.
 
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