working it hot

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: working it hot

I think the old saying "dead men tell no tales" would apply here.

I don't think anyone is talking about removing covers and checking power with a meter.
 
Re: working it hot

Originally posted by jim sutton:
I think the old saying "dead men tell no tales" would apply here.

I don't think anyone is talking about removing covers and checking power with a meter.
Click to expand...
Jim I do not understand what you are trying to say.

If they are dead they can't sue? :confused:

And telling an employee to remove a cover from live equipment without the proper PPE is as much as a violation as telling them to tie in a service hot.

I do live in the real world but I do not tell employees to work hot, it is not an option.
 
Re: working it hot

Thank you Bob and Don.

Jim Walker,
Maybe all this is why 120 just doesn't phase me much.
Click to expand...
this is absolutely bogus. You must be referring to brushing both sides with the back of your hand. 120 V across the chest will cause freezing of the muscles and actually cook you, this is the laws of Physics and Biology and no getting around it.

You can simulate the cooking by sticking a piece of wire in each end of a hot dog or any water retaining object and the applying 110 volts to it. The human body reacts the same identical way.

So you making the statement that 120 volts doesn't hurt you is dangerous, reckless, and total BS

edited to clarify Jim Walker

Roger

[ January 10, 2004, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: working it hot

Hello Bob,

What I mean is, there are a lot of tales being told here about working live circuits, but if you will notice, only the survivors are telling them. ;)

I would never suggest working live circuits without PPE.
 
Re: working it hot

Jim, Thanks for clearing me up on that. :)

Now I understand, the dead are not here to say "Hey don't work hot, it can kill you!"

Thanks again, Bob
 
Re: working it hot

Guys,
I'm not trying to make fun of the subject. In all seriousness, we all need to work safer.

A local lineman in our area was killed recently. He was hooking up a 120/240 service to a house. The guys on the ground looked up and saw him slumped over. He was dead. No one saw it happen.

In another local case, some employees of a large mfg had installed a fish tape in a conduit that had live 480v. The guy that was killed reached up to grab the end of the fish tape as it was coming out of the pipe with his leatherman tool and at the same time was holding on to a bar joist. Of course he could not have been qualified, but he must have been led to believe by someone that what he was doing was safe.


(If this is not exactly what happened, I was not there. Just trying to make a point to work safe.)
 
Re: working it hot

Sorry that i upset so many.I never said to go pull out a receptacle and check it while barefoot.I assume they are wearing insulated shoes,use insulated tools.Not suggesting they touch bare live wires either.As to the clothes there are limits in florida.Many wear shorts and no shirts.Not saying they are protected properly.
If you follow the treads many of you that are coming down on me for working it live ,do exactly the same thing.Perhaps you need to see what goes on down here.Very few companies supply men with trucks that have all the safety gear on it.Conditions and pay are both poor in Fl..I have insulated electrician gloves but have yet to see a company keep a set on a truck.Down here the norm is the men supply everything themself.And it is not uncommon to find companies that send 2 year helpers to go change a breaker in a live panel,alone.If what im saying is being mis understood by guys as GO DO IT LIVE,YOUR SAFE then i am sorry.What i do is just that and others should only do what they feel safe doing.
I do care about my mens safety and never suggest they do anything they are not trained to do.
You have made me rethink what i do let them do,and will in future limit them.Some things are beyond my control.If my boss calls me on cell and says tell john the new helper to take the van and go change a breaker at 555 main street then i am stuck with doing just that or look for another job.

As to that linesman getting killed.We must assume the poco had trained him and im sure they provide every tool needed.He must have made one wrong move.Can only imagine how his helper must feel.Seems far to often we hear of a linesman getting killed.Here is a case that they are working it live and even with training something went wrong.

[ January 10, 2004, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: working it hot

Jim Sutton, I also worked for a company who lost a service man a short time before I was employed by them. This was 120 v in FL just south of where Jim Walker lives, so I'm sure electricity works the same there. :roll eyes:

The service man was dispatched in the morning and when he didn't come home that evening they traced him back to the his first call of the day.

The body was found under the house with his hand stuck between floor joist and laying on a piece of black iron waste pipe just below ground surface. He had is hand in a j box.

They told me that a good portion of his upper body had cooked as I said above. This was the first company I worked for and this story has been with me for the last 29 years. I guess it made an impact because the people in the company knew him, and the story was told with their subdued emotions.

Roger

[ January 10, 2004, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: working it hot

ROGER i didn't mean or say electric works differant here.Am saying we just can't dress as well as you can up north.The man you lost was apperantly doing something i would never think of doing.Under a house in crawl space in a live junction box is a no no.Would assume that other factors apply here.Like maybe he thought the box was dead.Or someone turned a breaker on.Here is a case where a man was working alone and in a very poor situation.Details are welcome as to what company and town in a private message.What it seems you are saying is that this company didn't follow safety in the fact that he was alone.
 
Re: working it hot

I'm sure everyone here has done some things and then looked back later realizing we shouldn't have done it.

Jim W, When you tell your boss or customer that you have no problem working hot, what does that do to the rest of us? It puts pressure on us to do the same. Some of us know better and won't do it, but then we may lose our much needed job. The apprentices who need their job also, not knowing any better, well you know the rest.

Roger, thanks for your post, this is what we should be thinking about.
 
Re: working it hot

Jim Walker notice that I said it was more than 29 years ago. Yes he was doing wrong even for that time. The company (in Sarasota) changed its policy on service calls after this, they also had a situation with a service man almost dying from heat in a attic which they addressed with a rule after this happened.

You are missing the point of the post. the point is 120 volts is deadly and with you making a bogus statement that it doesn't bother you is rediculous. Some people with no more understanding of electricity than you are indicating you have will believe they can build an immunity to it.

What does dressing well have to do with the conversation? Are you speaking about PPE?

Roger
 
Re: working it hot

JIM SUTTON
That is exactly the position i am often in.
If my boss suggest i change a live service.I have two choices don't i ?
I just got back to work this week after being unemployed for 6 months.Wasn't easy to find a job at the pay scale i am use to making (and its not high at all by any northern scales)So far the man has seemed real nice.But he is another red neck just like me and im sure we will be doing some questionable practices.Should he tell me monday to go change a service live ,i have no real choice if i want to continue working, do i ?
My wife and son like to eat ,so i may be forced to do a lot of things i even fail unsafe.Would i quit if i felt it risky to the point i could get killed ? hell yes
 
Re: working it hot

I know none of the guys that have been killed thaught they would die, at worst thaught they get shocked.So just what would you suggest ?Tell a employer at interview that if he breaks any safety codes you will turn him into OSHA.
Think you will be getting called in to work ?
Don't wait on his call!!!!!!!!!!!

[ January 10, 2004, 03:54 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: working it hot

Jim you paint a rather bleak and deperate situation of the working conditions in the trades for the state of Florida ,

I cannot see having higly trained skills and credentials , then work for some outfit that does things like you desribe !!!!!!!

Your situations and circumstances are probaly more of a reflection of where your are in the electrical trade .......... hardly a represention of conditions for the whole state of Florida.

John
 
Re: working it hot

comes real close to conditions of most and my eyes are open and looking for what i hear conditions are up north.The few that might meet good conditions won't pay for sh--.
I have passed the masters test (let it exspire cause something else was paying a lot more )
So with a exspired masters license and 22 years of exsperiance one local large company offered $11 an hour.Laughed at him.Would work for big orange first.We have helpers down here at as little as $7 Yes conditions here are the pits.Leaving Fl is not an option.
Might add that the big residential contractors do not hire electricians,they hire installers

[ January 10, 2004, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: working it hot

Jim W,

Maybe try to talk to the guy, explain to him how it is not safe to change a service hot and how it is not much trouble to have the power cut off. But then you would have to get an inspection, right?
 
Re: working it hot

I think we all agree that it is necessary to work things hot at time for fault finding purposes. It should be done with the proper PPE and properly trained personnel. When it comes to changing out components it is time to isolate the circuit. The company I work for requires that we have high voltage gloves at all locations. This is one requirement I would like to have removed. It is to tempting especially for a young employee to put on the gloves and work something hot. I remember about twenty years ago when I was young and dumb putting on high voltage gloves and reconnecting a control wire that had came loose from a 600 volt 3000 amp buss bar. If I saw any of my workers doing this today I would fire them on the spot. It is better to shut down operations or pull the meter that to jeopardy a person's life.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top