Would you allow your helper to do this

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luckylerado said:
My comments go beyond what I see in the pictures provided my frustration stems from some of the responses that I have seen. By far not the most hazardous situation that I have seen people expose themselves including myself before a rude awakening.

My point is proven ever single day on job sites around the world. When someone gets mamed by moving equipment or burned by an arc flash or slingshotted out of a bucket truck suddenly my point becomes abundantly clear to the workers and familys and employers affected. Maintaining a safe work environment is the responsibility of everyone in the workforce from the guy sweeping up to the project manager. Mistakes and shortcuts are always going to happen and especially when young people are learning the trades but there needs to be people willing to step up and lead by example and create a culture of safety first because my life or your life could be dependent upon what someone else is doing on the other side of the wall.

The attitude too often is, " hey there is the safety guy, hurry put your safety glasses on before he sees you." or "hey keep watch while I climb up on that ductwork" when it should be "Put your safety glasses on and get off that ductwork or we do not need you on this jobsite"

You just never know when something awful is going to happen and it is tragic when something does that could have been easily been prevented.

My Point
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Then you have where I used to work, the Safety Manager himself got hurt a few times trying to prove things safe. Best I remember was him jumping up and down on a hatch to a primary clarifier, and the cover shifted. At least the tank was full, otherwise he would have fallen almost 15' to a concrete bottom. Operators (read: not electrically trained) need to reach inside a boiler with live 480V to reach a reset? Give them 17kV rated gloves that are so bulky no one used them. and one maintenance assistant I worked with was indeed catapulted from a manlift at that plant some years before.

At least we had no fatalities or career ending injuries, tho in 5 years I personally saw the results of 4 accidents involving 277/480.
 
cloudibew said:
...Even when i was a superintendant i always had those tools in my pocket. In fact i can do more with those 3 tools than most can with a whole box of every electrical tool on the market. J/S
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Do tell us about the time you ran three inch conduit; how you cut the pipe, made off sets, tightened the fittings, cut unistrut, drilled holes for anchors, pulled, stripped, landed the wire, torqued the lugs and cleaned up afterwards using those three tools.
 
cloudibew said:
Not sure what kind of person would not make sure their tools are accountrd for and put away before jumping in their vehicle to go home. Even when i was a superintendant i always had those tools in my pocket. In fact i can do more with those 3 tools than most can with a whole box of every electrical tool on the market. J/S
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"Faster than a speeding bullet! More powerful than a locomotive! Able to leap tall buildings at a single bound!" One tool for each task at hand. ;)
 
ActionDave said:
Do tell us about the time you ran three inch conduit; how you cut the pipe, made off sets, tightened the fittings, cut unistrut, drilled holes for anchors, pulled, stripped, landed the wire, torqued the lugs and cleaned up afterwards using those three tools.
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It's called hyperbole.
 
cloudibew said:
Its going to be sad in 30yrs and no one knows how to work hot safely... "Sorry we have to shut down your entire restarsunt to replace the 20amp breaker for you toaster..." I agree safety is absolutely important but there must be a ballance all these young men and women coming up through the ranks that are not learning how to work energized safely are extremely ill-prepared. Like sending a soldier into battle with teaching them to keep their head down.... Too much safety like too much of anything is foolish.
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Designs of things will likely eventually evolve to an extent that such a task may not involve the same risks it does today.

We already are seeing more low voltage controls that once were higher voltages to minimize the risks when someone is working on such equipment live. We might have separate compartments on machines where high voltage components are located, additional shielding that once never existed on some items, and things of that nature.

It isn't just electrical workplace hazards that you are seeing changes in designs or work procedures either.
 
kwired said:
Designs of things will likely eventually evolve to an extent that such a task may not involve the same risks it does today.

We already are seeing more low voltage controls that once were higher voltages to minimize the risks when someone is working on such equipment live. We might have separate compartments on machines where high voltage components are located, additional shielding that once never existed on some items, and things of that nature.

It isn't just electrical workplace hazards that you are seeing changes in designs or work procedures either.
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The earliest commercial ionization smoke detectors worked on ~250VDC.
 
cloudibew said:
Why and how is everyone soo sure its energized? I dont see any meters or any other tool to indicate that, that panel is in fact energized. And what year helper? 1st yr no even if its to "guard" the breakers from being turned on, 3rd or 4th year maybe depending on the helper as an individual. And thats not the typical company issued cheap hard hat so are we even sure he is a helper? But at the end of the day our profession is inhearently dangerous and not for the faint of heart. As for tools in the pocket, a good electrician will always have at least a pair of lineman pliers and a flat and phillips screwdriver in their pocket.
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Because the person who took the picture corrected herself, apologized for the omission in the original post and SAID it was energized. For purposes of this discussion, that should be enough.
 
I am quite stunned at the responses in this thread. I will be the first one to step up and say that the entirety of NFPA 70E and all of its requirements are outside of my current knowledge base. As such, I don't really know if that person standing in front of that panel (energized) is a violation today or not. I expected at least one person to give a definitive answer, but I failed to find one. The closest was a mention that the person may be standing outside the flash boundary.
 
macmikeman said:
Everything is going to be fine. That kid is wearing a hard hat and that's what matters.
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Black humor alert...

When I was working in the oil patch, a worker was killed on one of the rigs where I was handling the drilling mud. A guy working up in the derrick knocked a 200lb casing nubbin off the rack and it hit the worker on the drilling floor some 100' below, killing him instantly and making a huge mess. In a safety briefing a few days later, in the painful silence following the description of the incident, someone asked if he had been wearing his hard hat.
 
ActionDave said:
Do tell us about the time you ran three inch conduit; how you cut the pipe, made off sets, tightened the fittings, cut unistrut, drilled holes for anchors, pulled, stripped, landed the wire, torqued the lugs and cleaned up afterwards using those three tools.
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Fulthrotl said:
hold my beer.... watch this..... :p

not being rude, but if you put it in with three tools,
it'll probably look like it was put in with three tools.
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:)
 
luckylerado said:
I did.
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Maybe not enough in your eyes but she evidently tried notification but was ignored. Suggestions about what else to try is what I believe she was seeking. Why not try that instead?

Several options would be helpful as all options simply will not work for all personality types. Pursuation for some, calculated finesse for others, heavy-handed methods for some, etc. One style does not work for everybody. A progression of techniques is typical but people have different escalation rates and limits.
 
mivey said:
Maybe not enough in your eyes but she evidently tried notification but was ignored. ...
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What manner(s) of notification did she try?

If you look up the company on the guy's tee shirt, they outsource their safety training. One would assume the company has a safety director.
 
Smart $ said:
What manner(s) of notification did she try?

If you look up the company on the guy's tee shirt, they outsource their safety training. One would assume the company has a safety director.
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I don't know what she tried but she did get feedback so she did something, not nothing as some suggested.

Was it adequate/appropriate? IDK.
 
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