Would you.....

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RE:would you

RE:would you

I spent a short stint as a residential estimator, and in just the short time i was there, i saw an old EC that had made a good living doing mid to high end custom homes for close to 30 years @ around 3.50 sq/ft. He was run out of business by the new breed of large shops doing the same houses for 1.50 sq/ft on average. It seems in my area that #12 has become the standard from most of the AHJs.
 
I doubt anyone wired a 3 story 3000 square foot house for 4700$. Stories have a way of getting distorted while their being told and who is mentally challenged enough to believe a general contractor when it comes to money and them wanting you to do work.

I'm not even going to talk about using #12.. vs #14.. Why not #10? LOL!
 
wireman71 said:
I doubt anyone wired a 3 story 3000 square foot house for 4700$. Stories have a way of getting distorted while their being told.
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I was thinking that this price could be labor only. There are contractors that like to furnish all materials and see how cheap they can get labor only. It's still a cheap price.

Just an idea.:grin:
 
I Agree

I Agree

peter d said:
I think that wiring a house with all #12 is a total waste of time and money.
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I agree.
A lot of people who are quick to advocate upsizing the wire forget that they then sometimes need to make the boxes larger. This may not be much of a problem in new construction, after all, the next size deeper box doesn't cost all that more. But, sometimes, when doing old work, you just can't stuff that deeper box into that old wall.
Also, I find it much harder to work with #12 wires and fold them neatly into the box.
It would probably be better to split up the 15amp, #14 wire, circuits into a greater number than it would be to use all 20amp, #12 wire, circuits.
 
peter d said:
I think that wiring a house with all #12 is a total waste of time and money.
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Agreed!

growler said:
I was thinking that this price could be labor only. There are contractors that like to furnish all materials and see how cheap they can get labor only. It's still a cheap price.

Just an idea.:grin:
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I believe the OP said everything was supplied except wire and boxes.
 
electricman2 said:
I believe the OP said everything was supplied except wire and boxes.
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You are right he did say everything except wire and boxes. I find this arrangement kind of strange. $4700 could get him the labor ( everything furnished ) from some of these companies but I can't see them furnishing the wire and boxes for that amount.
 
So the general contractor is supplying devices, plates, cans, trims, breakers and panels. The obvious question is why? He can't buy them cheaper than an EC can, so that means he is already in possession of these items. The plot thickens. By what suspicious turn of events would a general contractor find himself in possession of enough trim to finish a house? Since we are talking about a general contractor, we can immediately rule out the possibility that he took possession of these articles by legitimate means.

Sometimes people will tell you that they want to supply the materials. They will offer some incredible explanation as to why they want to do this but hearing these explanations always fills one with suspicion and dread.

Anytime a customer insists that he will supply materials, that is a very significant warning sign.
 
Now for an update....

Now for an update....

Talked to my buddy some more today. The EC used to have a shop with 7 employees. But they spent too much money and now he has no employees. He is doing the job at a cash price..i.e....no 1099. Also, apparently the guy is broke and desperate for work. (This in a market where I turn business away.) I would also hazard to guess he has no insurance or business license. Furthermore since my buddy pulled the permits as owner/builder (since he will live in the house) he is liable for the work. So if the EC does a lousy job, he can get away with it.

(as a side note, in South Carolina a Residential Builder can pull all permits for residential construction in a county. In a city he can only pull framing permits. You have to have additionial licenses for electrical, plumbing, or HVAC)

c2500
 
growler said:
The fine folks at Copper.org will disagree with you.
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Yup, you're right, I just checked the link that mivey provided.

Now if they actually had something other than propaganda to show why #14 is not the best choice, I'll start drinking their kool aid. ;)
 
c2500 said:
Furthermore since my buddy pulled the permits as owner/builder (since he will live in the house) he is liable for the work. So if the EC does a lousy job, he can get away with it.
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Yeah sure. The lawyers will just let him go no problemo. :grin:
 
The last three jobs I did this week I have charged about 2-3 hundred dollars more than I would have last year theses were small projects and each time I bid I thought I might be to high but I got the jobs and made money the fourth job I bid this week I did not get I was high but NOT to high the other guy was to CHEAP in every area you have the low baller as a matter of fact I got one guy wanting a job who told me he had his own truck tools and license but no work I guess he found out contraktin aint eazy
 
c2500 said:
Talked to my buddy some more today. The EC used to have a shop with 7 employees. But they spent too much money and now he has no employees. He is doing the job at a cash price..i.e....no 1099. Also, apparently the guy is broke and desperate for work.
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My guess is he'll be working for Homer by years end.
 
Sure they're not paying in euros? With the exchange rate and the weak dollar the guy might make a few "bucks".:rolleyes:
 
c2500 said:
He is doing the job at a cash price..i.e....no 1099. I would also hazard to guess he has no insurance or business license.
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If the guy is going to work for cash under the table it's better not to have a business license or insurance ( now he's just labor). If he's running a business then he will be expected to keep records and if he's not going to pay taxes the last thing he would want is records.

If this contractor hires him to work without license and insurance and this electrician/laborer get hurt on the job then we will see how smart the GC is for finding cheap subs.

I see just to many ways where this could end up bad in the long run. Every thing from an IRS audit to being sued for medical expenses. :-?
 
Rewire said:
The last three jobs I did this week I have charged about 2-3 hundred dollars more than I would have last year theses were small projects and each time I bid I thought I might be to high but I got the jobs and made money the fourth job I bid this week I did not get I was high but NOT to high the other guy was to CHEAP in every area you have the low baller as a matter of fact I got one guy wanting a job who told me he had his own truck tools and license but no work I guess he found out contraktin aint eazy
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Commas and periods are your friends, it's ok to use them. :wink: :grin:
 
I routinely wire outlets in 12 ga & lights in 14 ga. It wasn't too long ago that one 14ga GFCI cct in the house covered all the bath and exterior outlets. Some of the local building departments in the area are requiring 12 ga duplex ccts. I've had a few complaints over the years of vacuum cleaners tripping breakers. With stranded wire it all stuffs in easily. $4700 seems more like the price for an addition than a house.

Dave
 
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