Would you.....

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Tiger Electrical said:
I routinely wire outlets in 12 ga & lights in 14 ga. It wasn't too long ago that one 14ga GFCI cct in the house covered all the bath and exterior outlets. Some of the local building departments in the area are requiring 12 ga duplex ccts. I've had a few complaints over the years of vacuum cleaners tripping breakers. With stranded wire it all stuffs in easily. $4700 seems more like the price for an addition than a house.

Dave
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Dave, what ever you do don't stop the 14G guys, they bring us plenty of work, when the owner's vacuum cleaners start tripping breakers. or when the owner overloads the already overloaded circuits, We just love it when someone wings the home wiring layout, who has time to calc the circuits requires, who do they think we are electricians?

Don't tell me I don't know what I am doing, I roped thousands of homes, without checking the calcs, and the lights always went on.
 
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satcom said:
Dave, what ever you do don't stop the 14G guys, they bring us plenty of work,
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:roll:

That's kind of a broad statement don't you think? There are plenty of use who use #14 who does circuit layout so breakers don't trip. It's not that hard to figure out.
 
peter d said:
:roll:

That's kind of a broad statement don't you think? There are plenty of use who use #14 who does circuit layout so breakers don't trip. It's not that hard to figure out.
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What is broad about checking the cals before selecting the cable?

When you see poor design, over, and over, where they select cable on cost, and never make an effort to check the loads.

We have entire projects, of condos, and townhouses, here that are wired for cost, but when your doing a custom home there is no reason not to design a well planned job.
 
satcom said:
What is broad about checking the cals before selecting the cable?

When you see poor design, over, and over, where they select cable on cost, and never make an effort to check the loads.

We have entire projects, of condos, and townhouses, here that are wired for cost, but when your doing a custom home there is no reason not to design a well planned job.
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What in the world does #12 have to do with a well planned job? I would much rather have more 15 amp circuits than 20 amp circuits...
 
New construction electrical contractors typically wire to code-minimum in an effort to protect their minimal profit, or lessen their losses. On the other hand, remodeling electrical contractors typically upsell their clients on convenience and safety, wiring better than code minimum. I typically run larger gauge wire, more circuits, more smoke/CO alarms, surge suppressors, QO panels, extra supports, oversize conduits, etc.

I wired a new garage last year. A builder's EC probably would have run a GFCI, GDO outlet, inside & outside light. I ran a 100A subpanel, 12 lights, 10 outlets,and a 240V heater outlet. Maybe I'll want a welder out there someday.

Dave
 
HaskinsElectric said:
So the general contractor is supplying devices, plates, cans, trims, breakers and panels. The obvious question is why? He can't buy them cheaper than an EC can, so that means he is already in possession of these items. The plot thickens. By what suspicious turn of events would a general contractor find himself in possession of enough trim to finish a house? Since we are talking about a general contractor, we can immediately rule out the possibility that he took possession of these articles by legitimate means.

Sometimes people will tell you that they want to supply the materials. They will offer some incredible explanation as to why they want to do this but hearing these explanations always fills one with suspicion and dread.

Anytime a customer insists that he will supply materials, that is a very significant warning sign.
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I run into the guys that tell me they have all the parts I'll need. Then they bring out a milk crate of boxes, switches, etc. that date from the 1940's. No two look alike unless you count the rust.:smile:
 
satcom said:
Dave, what ever you do don't stop the 14G guys, they bring us plenty of work, when the owner's vacuum cleaners start tripping breakers. or when the owner overloads the already overloaded circuits, We just love it when someone wings the home wiring layout, who has time to calc the circuits requires, who do they think we are electricians?

Don't tell me I don't know what I am doing, I roped thousands of homes, without checking the calcs, and the lights always went on.
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And the most ridiculous post of the week award goes to....:rolleyes:

Circuit calcs in a dwelling? How would you know what was going to be plugged in to the receptacles? :-?
 
electricmanscott said:
And the most ridiculous post of the week award goes to....:rolleyes:

Circuit calcs in a dwelling? How would you know what was going to be plugged in to the receptacles? :-?
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Agreed. They don't make a home vacuume that is going to trip a 15 amp circuit unless you have a team of maids all plugged into the same circuit and that is just unlikely. I guess if I decided to cook in my bedroom with a roaster and a microwave I could run into some trouble. And watch out for those homeowners who buy 50 lamp chandaleers for their bedrooms that might just do it too.
 
bikeindy said:
Agreed. They don't make a home vacuume that is going to trip a 15 amp circuit unless you have a team of maids all plugged into the same circuit and that is just unlikely.
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When some of the vacuums say they are 12 amps it doesn't take too much else on the same circuit to trip the breaker. Just add some lights and the big screen and you will be vacuuming in the dark.
 
jimport said:
When some of the vacuums say they are 12 amps it doesn't take too much else on the same circuit to trip the breaker. Just add some lights and the big screen and you will be vacuuming in the dark.
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And it will not take more then a few lights, and a small TV if they have any of the Electrolux vacuum cleaners, or any decent brand vacuum.
 
electricmanscott said:
And the most ridiculous post of the week award goes to....:rolleyes:

Circuit calcs in a dwelling? How would you know what was going to be plugged in to the receptacles? :-?
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When you layout a custom home, don't you talk to the owner before doing the layout, add up the circuit loads. Even if we go a service upgrade the utility company wants a load calc, before they approve the service, at one time, the calc was only required for new construction.
 
I say we sell every home owner on a built in vacuum system so they never have to plug in a vaccum and risk tripping the breaker.
 
jshaw said:
I say we sell every home owner on a built in vacuum system so they never have to plug in a vaccum and risk tripping the breaker.
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That would be nice if the vaccum was the only problem, just about every call we get for a service upgrade, is where the owner does not need a larger service, but needs more circuits, most of the homes we see today have computers and printers, and a TV in every bedroom, then add the other varied devices, and with 14G your pushing the limits.
 
satcom said:
When you layout a custom home, don't you talk to the owner before doing the layout, add up the circuit loads. Even if we go a service upgrade the utility company wants a load calc, before they approve the service, at one time, the calc was only required for new construction.
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Sat, for purposes of service calculations....sure you add up the loads ~ along with reductions and deductions...however, that does not mean the loads you calculated will actually be the ones that exist.

This is similar to the "How many outlets can I put on a 15/20A ckt in a dwelling unit?" ...the answer being as many as you like.
 
celtic said:
Sat, for purposes of service calculations....sure you add up the loads ~ along with reductions and deductions...however, that does not mean the loads you calculated will actually be the ones that exist.

This is similar to the "How many outlets can I put on a 15/20A ckt in a dwelling unit?" ...the answer being as many as you like.
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So your lost in space also!

I give up, time to enjoy the better things in life.

If everyone is happy, with the way they layout the circuits, so be it. The code does not guide efficent work, it only gives you a base to start from. There are no rules, laws, or standards that tell you to do efficent jobs.
 
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